Featured Biblical prophecies and statements. Are they about Jesus Christ or Bahaullah?

Trailblazer · Nov 26, 2020

CG Didymus said: ↑

Other than did this woman get pregnant without having sex with a man, is this really a Messianic prophecy?

So how does one verse and only one verse from this end up being a Messianic prophecy?
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Isaiah 7 is not a Messianic prophecy, but Isaiah 9:6-7 is.

Trailblazer · Nov 26, 2020

Skywalker said: ↑

Jesus is God. Jesus walking the earth 2000 years ago doesn't mean He isn't God.
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It does mean that because God is spirit, so God does not have legs and feet that can walk the earth.

Skywalker · Nov 26, 2020

Trailblazer said: ↑

Isaiah 7 is not a Messianic prophecy.
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It is a messianic prophecy, because Jesus is Emmanuel. Is Jesus' name "Immanuel" or "Jesus?" | CARM.org

Is Jesus' name "Immanuel" or "Jesus?"
In Isaiah 7:14 the Bible gives a prophecy of the name of Jesus. It says, "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel."1 If we go to Matt. 1:21, it says, "And she will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins." (See also, Matt. 1:25; Luke 1:31; 2:21). Is this a contradiction? No. It is not.

In ancient times names were often given as representations of the hopes and dreams of the parents or even of recognition of divine assistance. Names in the Old Testament had understandable meanings. For example: Abram means "exalted father," but Abraham means "Father of a multitude." Some names could even be translated into complete sentences as in Uzziel (‘God is my strength’--Ex. 6:18), Adoniram (‘my lord is exalted’--1 Kings 4:6), and Ahimelek (‘my [divine] brother is king’--1 Sam. 21:1).2

Names are more descriptive in the Hebrew and Greek than they are in English. They often refer to the character, purpose, etc., of the one being named. The closest we come to understanding this is in Native American culture. We are familiar with such names as "Running Bear," or "Pretty Eagle, "or "White Owl" as names. These names meant something and were far more descriptive than "Bob," or "Tom," or "Sue."

When we come to Isaiah 7:14, we encounter a prophecy about the Messiah--stating that his name will be Immanuel. Immanuel literally means "God is with us." This is significant because Jesus is God in flesh:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us . . . " (John 1:1,14).

For in Him [Jesus] all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Col. 2:9).

The Name Jesus
So, we can see that a prophecy of Jesus being "Immanuel" is dealing with his being God--the word in flesh. This was fulfilled in the birth of Jesus when the Word, known as the Son, second person of the Trinity, became flesh. We call this the incarnation.

When it came time to name the Lord, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and told Joseph to call his new son "Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21). The word "Jesus" means "Jehovah is salvation." This is appropriate since Jesus is Jehovah, the second person of the Trinity, who became flesh and is our salvation.
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rational experiences · Nov 26, 2020

Science human owned.

Machines change God the earth not their machine or reactive converting of earth mass

His story. Male choice to be theist and inventor. Said only God was natural and owner power or energy.

Attacks self life living inside gas heavens.

Tells his story. Asks science to stop.

History. Temple pyramid changed natural radiation levels.

Told. Were taught. Were shown the evidence. Refused to stop.

Elite control. Pyramid ownership and temple ownership. Science buildings said I will not stop.

Even after prophecies earth disaster activation.

Historic evidence. Rome learnt agreed with revelations. Previously did not agree.

Blasted temple science from sea harbour.

Temple control rebuilt.

Ask when science temple stopped and was dismantled? When ownership proved self wrong. Irradiation attack effect recurred. Observed. Same reasoning.

Common human logic.

Historic advice says so.

Science pre existing advice. Life sacrificed proven correct. Correlating advice proved it was agreed upon.

Skywalker · Nov 26, 2020

Trailblazer said: ↑

It does mean that because God is spirit, so God does not have legs and feet that can walk the earth.
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Jesus had those traits when he walked the earth. Jesus is a man | CARM.org

Jesus is a man
by Matt Slick

One of the lesser-known biblical doctrines concerns Jesus as a man right now. Many do not know that right now in heaven Jesus is a man though in a glorified body. Some object to this and cite various reasons (answered at the end of this paper) for denying His present humanity. They are in error. Following is a biblical demonstration that Jesus is still both divine and human in nature:

It is biblically correct to say that Jesus is a man right now in heaven--though a glorified man. But, it would be wrong to say He was only a man. He is both divine and human in nature at the same time (Col. 2:9); He is both God and man right now.

Furthermore, Jesus' humanity now is important for two reasons. First, this is what the Bible teaches. Second, as a man, Jesus is a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. As a priest, He forever intercedes for us.

"where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." (Heb. 6:20).

"Hence, also, He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them." (Heb. 7:25).

In order to be a priest, Jesus has to be a man. A spirit cannot be a priest after the order of Melchizedek; and if Jesus is not a man now, He could not hold His priesthood, and He could not be forever interceding for us. Therefore, to deny Jesus' present humanity is to deny His priesthood and His intercession on our behalf. Without His intercession, we are lost.

Jesus died

There is no dispute that Jesus died on the cross--except for some non-Christian religions and various atheistic groups who deny the biblical record. Nevertheless, the scriptures teach us that Jesus died.

"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus." (1 Thess. 4:14).

Jesus rose from the dead physically

The bible teaches us that Jesus rose from the dead. Unfortunately, some Christians are not aware that Jesus actually rose from the dead in the same body in which He died though it was a glorified body. We see that Jesus prophesied the resurrection of His physical body in John 2:19-21 and fulfilled this in other verses:

"Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews therefore said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body." (John 2:19-21).

"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:39).

"When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you." 20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced when they saw the Lord." (John 20:19-20).
"Then He *said to Thomas, "Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing." (John 20:27).

"and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain." (1 Cor. 15:14).

Merely asserting that Jesus rose is not enough. It must be stated that Jesus rose physically lest the very words of Christ be denied.

After Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection

Jesus appeared to various people to demonstrate that He had risen physically. In these verses, we see that Jesus said He would raise the temple of His body. This He did, and the body He rose in was the same one He died in since it retained the physical wounds of His crucifixion--He still had holes in His hands and side!

I would like to note here that if anyone denies the resurrection of Christ, his faith is in vain; and he is not a true Christian. It is not enough to say that Jesus rose. You must acknowledge that He rose physically. A "spirit" resurrection is not a resurrection of the body; and without the resurrection of the body of Christ, death has not been conquered, and our faith would be in vain.

Jesus' resurrected body was a glorified body

Jesus rose from the dead physically in the same body in which He died. But, what kind of a body was this physical body in which He rose? Was it subject to death again? Would it grow tired or grow old? The Bible tells us about the resurrected body of which all Christians will receive in the future.

"But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come? . . . 40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthly; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthly, so also are those who are earthly; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." (1 Cor. 15:35, 40-49).

These verses tell us that something happens to the body that is raised from the dead. Notice that verse 44 says that "it is sown a natural body. It is raised a spiritual body." The same body that is sown (dies) is raised. The natural body is the body with which we are born. The natural body dies and is raised from the dead. But, when it is raised, it is changed into a spiritual body. The resurrected body is different from the natural body in its abilities and qualities as Jesus demonstrated; however, and this is vitally important, it is the same body as before--only "improved," "glorified," "spiritualized," etc. We see this in the fact that Jesus retained the wounds of His crucifixion as evidenced by the holes in His hands and side (John 20:27), yet He was able to simply appear in a room with the disciples without entering through the door (John 20:19-20). He was raised in the same body He died in though it had been glorified.

Jesus is a man in a glorified body.

We have already seen that Jesus was raised from the dead in the same body in which He died, but that body is a resurrected body. However, some people believe that at Jesus' ascension, He was somehow changed, and His physical body was no longer needed. But, this is not what the Bible teaches. There is no place where it states that Jesus stopped being a man. If anything, the New Testament says He is still a man.

"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form," (Col. 2:9).

"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." (1 Tim. 2:5).

We see here that Jesus is called a man. Like Col. 2:9 above, this verse uses the present tense ("is"). It clearly states that Jesus is a man.

"And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as a dead man. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades." (Rev. 1:17-18).

Notice that in Col. 2:9 it speaks in the present tense ("dwells"). Colossians was written well after Jesus' ascension into heaven, yet Paul tells us that Jesus is in bodily form. What body would that be? Why, it would be the same body in which He was raised. To clarify that Jesus is a man, read the next verse. In Rev. 1:17-18, Jesus is in heaven, and John the Apostle falls at Jesus' feet; and Jesus laid His right hand on him. Clearly, from these verses we can see that Jesus is in bodily form as a man.

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Skywalker · Nov 26, 2020

9-10ths_Penguin said: ↑

Again: your point?

I have no issue with the idea that Matthew 1:23 is a reference to the Tanakh. I have no issue with the idea that the Gospel authors were familiar with the Tanakh.

... but none of this says anything about the intent of the authors of the Tanakh.

Do you understand what I'm saying to you? Your posts suggest that you don't.
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The Tanakh agrees with the New Testament concept of the Messiah. The Jews reject the Bible's concept of Jesus because it's easier to believe in a political figure Messiah than a Creator and Savior.

InvestigateTruth · Nov 26, 2020

Skywalker said: ↑

God being an invisible spirit doesn't mean that He couldn't have come down as a person. God cannot die. Jesus died. Therefore, Jesus cannot be God. | CARM.org
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We don't disagree about God can come down from heaven.

But what does it mean, God comes Down? How does He do That?

You seem to think, that means God incarnate Himself. That's not what the bible says. What Bible says, is, God manifests His Will and attributes from the Christ. He does not change Himself or incarnate Himself.

firedragon · Nov 26, 2020

Skywalker said: ↑

Jesus is God. Jesus walking the earth 2000 years ago doesn't mean He isn't God.
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Right.

How about Ezekiel? He was called Son of Man. Was he God? Are their any manifestations of God in the Tanakh like the Bahai's believe?

Thats the question.

Skywalker · Nov 26, 2020

CG Didymus said: ↑

Other than did this woman get pregnant without having sex with a man, is this really a Messianic prophecy? Since it is a "sign" for King Ahaz the primary thing these verses are saying is that a child is going to be born, whether it is a virgin or a young woman isn't the main thing. It is that by the time this child gets old enough to choose good and reject evil, the enemies of Judah, the two kings, will be dead.

So how does one verse and only one verse from this end up being a Messianic prophecy? Something that is probably way easier to fake than a resurrection, is the virgin birth of Jesus. Who was there to verify it? Only two gospel writers take the verse from Isaiah and make a birth narrative about Jesus being born from a virgin. The rest of the verses in Isaiah 7 describe other things that will take place. None of those things are included. Only the virgin birth and that he will be called Emmanuel. Plus, the two gospel stories contradict each other in several ways.
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The resurrection wasn't faked, there were hundreds of eyewitnesses.

Skywalker · Nov 26, 2020

InvestigateTruth said: ↑

Genesis 18 is symbolic. Bible clearly says, God is an invisible spirit.
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Moses saw some of Jesus when he saw the burning bush. The angel of the Lord guided Moses. Theophany | CARM.org

A theophany is a visible manifestation of God usually restricted to the Old Testament. God has appeared in dreams (Gen. 20:3-7, Gen. 28:12-17), visions (Gen. 15:1-21, Isaiah 6:1-13), as an angel (Gen. 16:7-13, 18:1-33), etc.

There is a manifestation known as the Angel of the Lord (Judges 6:20f.) and seems to have characteristics of God Himself (Gen. 16:7-9, 18:1-2, Exodus 3:2-6, Joshua 5:14, Judges 2:1-5, 6:11). Such characteristics as having the name of God, being worshiped, and recognized as God has led many scholars to conclude that the angel of the Lord is really Jesus manifested in the Old Testament. This does not mean that Jesus is an angel. The word "angel" means messenger. Other Scriptures that describe more vivid manifestations of God are Gen. 17:1, 18:1, Ex. 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:20, Num. 12:6-8, Acts 7:2. For further information on theophanies, see the Plurality Study.
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Trailblazer · Nov 26, 2020

Skywalker said: ↑

The Old Testament predicted the coming of Jesus. Abraham and Moses saw Jesus. Jesus is the Angel of the Lord talked about in Genesis and Exodus and he appeared to the parents of Samson. Daniel saw a spiritual being who was like a Son of God.
Did the OT prophesy Jesus coming from Nazareth? | CARM.org
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Yes, the Old Testament predicted the coming of Jesus, but it also predicted the coming of Baha'u'llah.

Trailblazer · Nov 26, 2020

Skywalker said: ↑

The resurrection wasn't faked, there were hundreds of eyewitnesses.
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There were eyewitnesses in the story, but a story is not proof that anything in the story actually happened.

I mean I can write a story that says that in have ten pink elephants in my garage, and all my neighbors saw them, but that does not mean that there are really ten pink elephants in my garage.

Skywalker · Nov 26, 2020

Trailblazer said: ↑

There were eyewitnesses in the story, but a story is not proof that anything in the story actually happened.

I mean I can write a story that says that in have ten pink elephants in my garage, and all my neighbors saw them, but that does not mean that there are really ten pink elephants in my garage.
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The persecutor Paul saw the risen Jesus and he wrote over half of the New Testament.
Is there historical evidence of Jesus' miracles? | CARM.org

Is there historical evidence of Jesus' miracles?
The Gospels describe Jesus' ministry including miraculous healings and other wonders like walking on water, multiplying bread, and commanding storms to cease all at once. Such extraordinary acts are just one part of the larger testimony in scripture that Jesus is indeed the promised Messiah and the Son of God. Critics will claim that there are insufficient historical grounds to believe such spectacular accounts, but the reality is that all the historical evidence points to the fact that Jesus really did perform miracles. Obviously, there are no videos or photographs of Jesus bringing about these signs and wonders. It is also true that giving blind men sight or turning water into wine is not the kind of event that leave behind archaeological remains for us to unearth. If we relied only on these kinds of evidence, however, we would know very little about anyone in ancient history. What we do find is exactly what we would expect to find if Jesus really was a miracle worker: a large body of unanimous, diverse, and widespread ancient testimony on the matter not only from those who revered Jesus but also from those who scorned Him.

The Testimony of the Gospels
If we are going to talk about the miracles of Jesus, the first and most important place for us to look is the four New Testament Gospels. These detailed accounts of Jesus' earthly ministry were written during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses. They represent the gathering of that first-hand testimony which was so central to the early Christian community.1 It is uncontroversial to say that these are the earliest surviving accounts of Jesus' life, and equally uncontroversial to say that they present Jesus as working many miracles. Any examination of Jesus' life has to start here, which means it must start with very early accounts that plainly report Jesus as performing extraordinary, supernatural deeds.

While critics of the New Testament have spent two millennia attempting to discredit the Gospels by accusing them of numerous discrepancies and hopeless contradictions, any objective reader of these four works will be struck by their remarkable consistency. Yes, there are difficulties when comparing the texts, but most of the alleged conflicts between them are easily explained as natural differences between different people telling the same story from different perspectives, with different emphases, or limited to different portions of the total information. Certainly, there are a few examples where the details in each version are more challenging to reconcile, but none of these cases represent an inherent logical contradiction nor do any of them undermine the weight of their overall agreement on the events of Jesus' life and His wise and miraculous ministry. Even the most skeptical scholar who is seeking to reconstruct the life of the historical Jesus turns to the Gospels as sources of reliable information. We need not, however, share their skepticism and reduce the Gospels to mere minimalistic sources of a few raw facts. The Gospels really are reliable sources of truth on the life and purpose of Jesus and are completely worthy of the Christian's faith in them as the true and inerrant Word of God. They are also our earliest surviving sources of Jesus' life and work, were written in the lifetime of the eyewitnesses of Jesus, and are based on that eyewitness testimony.

Not only do the Gospels all report Jesus performing many miracles, but they also agree on the sorts of miracles Jesus performed. In a few cases, they all even describe precisely the same miracle, such as the feeding of the 5,000 (Matthew 14:13-21, Mark 6:33-44, Luke 9:12-17, John 6:1-14). They all agree that He cured illnesses, gave sight to the blind, and even restored life to some individuals who had recently died. It doesn't do any good to object that these are incredible things that don't usually happen. Of course they are! That's what makes them miraculous signs! To ask for evidence of a miracle and then rule out all positive testimony because the testimony reports miracles is not scientific or rational. It is prejudicial bias based on a dogma against miracles. The fact is that our earliest and clearest accounts of Jesus' life and ministry offer us a consistent testimony that Jesus performed these kinds of miracles. That is evidence.

The Testimony of Acts and the Epistles
There are other biblical references beyond just the Gospels that affirm Jesus' miraculous works. In Acts 2:22, we have an early sermon by Peter recorded in which he says:

"Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know."

One might object that this sermon is reported in Acts, which is written by the same author as the Gospel of Luke and so doesn't really count as an additional source. This, however, ignores the fact that Luke is utilizing previous sources. Even Bart Ehrman, one of the leading scholarly critics of Christianity today, defends the idea that:

"Some of the speeches in Acts contain what scholars call preliterary tradition: oral traditions that had been in circulation from much earlier times that are found, now, only in their written form in Acts."2

Ehrman goes on to explain:

"These traditions are quite emphatic that Jesus was a Jewish man who lived, did spectacular deeds, taught, and was executed"3

So even from the perspective of critical scholarship, the book of Acts does preserve additional very early testimony that Jesus was a miracle worker. Ehrman himself, of course, does not affirm Jesus' miracles as historical. He is open, however, about the fact that his reason for not doing so is that they are miracles and are, therefore, (he contends) by definition improbable, if not impossible.4 His presupposition against the acceptance of miracles by historians is what drives him rather than any actual evidence against the miracles. The point here, again, is that the earliest traditions themselves all attest that Jesus worked miracles.

Another example of this is in the Book of Hebrews, which likewise reports to us that:

"After it was at the first spoken through the Lord [Jesus], it was confirmed to us by those who heard, God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will," (Hebrews 2:4).

We also have the report of Jesus' miraculous transfiguration on the mount in 2 Peter 1:16-18:

"For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, 'This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased' - and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain,"

And this is, of course, leaving aside all of the testimony about Jesus' greatest miracle, His resurrection. While the early church was not writing letters back and forth to one another needlessly regurgitating references to Jesus' miracles, it is evident from the testimony that we have that they believed Jesus had done these great works and that they believed it based on the first-hand accounts of those who had seen these miracles themselves. The New Testament books, therefore, present us with a strong body of early testimony from multiple sources that unanimously agree that Jesus did perform these miracles.
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Skywalker · Nov 26, 2020

firedragon said: ↑

Right.

How about Ezekiel? He was called Son of Man. Was he God? Are their any manifestations of God in the Tanakh like the Bahai's believe?

Thats the question.
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Son of Man has different meanings. What is the Shekinah glory of God? | CARM.org

What is the Shekinah glory of God?
Shekinah means "dwelling," or "one who dwells." So, the Shekinah glory of God would refer to the personal presence of God. The word Shekinah does not occur in the Old or New Testaments in the original languages. However, it entered Christian theology as a term via the targums and rabbinic literature after the Old Testament was completed and before the New Testament period began. It was used to describe the very presence of God. Therefore, it was used by rabbis in reference to the Lord's presence among his people (Exodus 19:16-18; 25:8; 40:34-38; 1 Kings 6:13). The rabbis used the term in reference to the glory of God filling the temple (2 Chronicles 7:1), his presence at the cloud (Exodus 14:19; 1 Kings 8:10–13), and his dwelling in the mountain ( Psalm 68:16-18; 74:2; Isaiah 8:18; Joel 3:17). Another way of describing it would be to use the term "glory of God" since the phrase is used to describe his presence (Psalm 19:1; Ezekiel 43:2; Luke 2:9; Acts 7:55).

Phrases used in the Bible that fall under the Shekinah are

Cloud, (Exodus 34:5; 40:34-38; Leviticus 16:2; Numbers 11:25; 14:14; 16:42 )

Cloud of the Lord, (Exodus 40:38; Numbers 9:15; 1 Kings 8:10–11)

The glory of God, (Exodus 16:10; Ezekiel 43:2; Luke 2:9; Acts 7:55)

The glory of the Lord, (Exodus 24:15–16; 1 Kings 8:11; Ezekiel 1:28; Luke 2:9)

Pillar of Cloud, (Exodus 13:21-22; 14:19–20; Numbers 12:5)

Presence of the Lord, (Genesis 3:8; Leviticus 10:2; Numbers 16:7; Judges 5:5; Psalm 97:5)

Radiance, (Habakkuk 3:4)

Thick cloud (Exodus 19:9, 16; Exodus 20:21)

In the Old Testament, various people would see God (Genesis 17:1; 18:1; Exodus 6:2-3; 24:9-11; Numbers 12:6-8). They would be in his presence. However, we know from the New Testament that they were not seeing the person of God the Father (John 6:446; 1 Timothy 6:16). They were seeing the pre-incarnate Christ. Of course, God would manifest himself in different forms in the Old Testament such as wind, a cloud,

In the New Testament, the manifestation of God, the manifestation of his presence, occurs in the person of Jesus. Jesus is the Word who became flesh (John 1:1, 14). In him, all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form (Colossians 2:9). He is called "the radiance of his glory and the exact representation of his nature," (Hebrews 1:3). Therefore, to see Jesus was in effect, to see God (John 14:9). Jesus is the Shekinah presence of God.

Quotes

Shekinah, "A circum-locution used in rabbinic literature to signify God’s presence." 1

"Transliteration of a Hebrew word meaning “the one who dwells” or “that which dwells.” The term enters Christian theology from its use in the Targums and rabbinic literature to describe the immanent presence in the world of the transcendent Deity."2

"The Shekinah (Heb. šeḵinâ), the radiance, glory or presence of God dwelling in the midst of his people, is used by Targumist and Rabbi to signify God himself..." 3

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Trailblazer · Nov 26, 2020

Skywalker said: ↑

It is a messianic prophecy, because Jesus is Emmanuel. Is Jesus' name "Immanuel" or "Jesus?" | CARM.org
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"When we come to Isaiah 7:14, we encounter a prophecy about the Messiah--stating that his name will be Immanuel. Immanuel literally means "God is with us." This is significant because Jesus is God in flesh:"

That was a prophecy about the coming of Jesus but not about the end times Messiah.

Skywalker · Nov 26, 2020

InvestigateTruth said: ↑

We don't disagree about God can come down from heaven.

But what does it mean, God comes Down? How does He do That?

You seem to think, that means God incarnate Himself. That's not what the bible says. What Bible says, is, God manifests His Will and attributes from the Christ. He does not change Himself or incarnate Himself.
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God came down as a man through the virgin birth. Jesus came to save us and teach us how to live, but He also is God incarnate. Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.

The doctrine of the incarnation is supported by the Bible. What is the incarnation? | CARM.org

What is the incarnation?
by Matt Slick
4/3/2017

The term "incarnation" means "to become flesh." The incarnation is that event where the second person of the Trinity, the Word, became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:1, "in the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and the word was God." John 1:14, "And the word became flesh and dwelt among us . . . " When the Word became flesh, he dwelt in the womb of Mary and was born as Jesus. Jesus is the incarnation of God. He is God in flesh. Col. 2:9 says, "for in him dwells all the fullness of deity in bodily form." Another term for the incarnation of God in reference to Jesus is the hypostatic union. The term "incarnation" does not appear in the New Testament, but the concept is definitely taught: John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; 1 Tim. 3:16; 1 John 4:2; John 20:28; Heb. 1:8.

Inside CARM
Definition of the Incarnation
To incarnate means to become flesh. The incarnation of Jesus is when the human nature (Jesus the man) was added to the nature of God the second person of ...

If God is unchanging, how can Jesus be God in flesh?
But, how do we reconcile the incarnation of the Word (which was God) and the doctrine of God's unchangeableness (His immutability)? The answer lies in ...

What Arianism teaches about the incarnation
At Jesus' incarnation, the Arians asserted that the divine quality of the Son, the Logos, took the place of the human and spiritual aspect of Jesus thereby denying ...

What Gnosticism teaches about the incarnation
The danger of gnosticism is easily apparent. It denies the incarnation of God as the Son. In so doing, it denies the true efficacy of the atonement since, if Jesus is ...

The Incarnation in the Bible
What Jesus said:
John 6:38, "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."

What Paul Said:
Philippians 2:6–7, "who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men."

What the Old Testament Says:
Isaiah 7:14, "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel."

What the New Testament Says:
John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Easton’s Bible Dictionary says: “that act of grace whereby Christ took our human nature into union with his Divine Person, became man. Christ is both God and man. Human attributes and actions are predicated of him, and he of whom they are predicated is God. A Divine Person was united to a human nature (Acts 20:28; Rom. 8:32; 1 Cor. 2:8; Heb. 2:11-14; 1 Tim. 3:16; Gal. 4:4, etc.). The union is hypostatical, i.e., is personal; the two natures are not mixed or confounded, and it is perpetual.” (Easton, M. G. Easton’s Bible Dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers, 1893.)
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firedragon · Nov 26, 2020

Skywalker said: ↑

Son of Man has different meanings. What is the Shekinah glory of God? | CARM.org
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Does not answer anything. Thanks.

Trailblazer · Nov 26, 2020

Skywalker said: ↑

The persecutor Paul saw the risen Jesus and he wrote over half of the New Testament.
Is there historical evidence of Jesus' miracles? | CARM.org
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Paul saw the spirit of Jesus, not His body.

Skywalker · Nov 26, 2020

InvestigateTruth said: ↑

The correct translation is not virgin. It is young woman. The rest of the verses don't match with Jesus. Jesus from beginning was Son of God, and knew all the right and wrong things. But here says, the boy eats honey and curd to know things, and before he knows right from wrong the land of two kings will lay waste. This description does not match with Jesus. You see? Jesus knew right from wrong from beginning. It is not like at some point Jesus started to know right from wrong.
So, we cannot just claim Emmanuel is Jesus, simply by saying, because it means God with us. That is just matching one word, while ignoring everything else that does not match with him.
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Jesus had a childhood because He was God incarnate.

When did Jesus know that He was God? | GotQuestions.org

When did Jesus know that He was God?
Question: "When did Jesus know that He was God?"

Answer: Jesus was always God. From eternity past He has been the second Person of the Trinity, and He always will be. The question of when, after the Incarnation, the human Jesus knew that He was God is interesting, but it is not addressed in Scripture. We know that, as an adult, Jesus fully realized who He was, expressing it this way: “Very truly I tell you, . . . before Abraham was born, I am!” (John 8:58). And when He prayed, “Now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began” (John 17:5).

It also seems that, as a child, Jesus was already aware of His nature and work. When Jesus was twelve years old, Joseph and Mary took the family to Jerusalem. On their way home, they were concerned about Jesus’ being missing from their caravan. They returned to Jerusalem and found Jesus “in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions” (Luke 2:46). His mother asked Jesus why He would disappear and worry them so. Jesus asked in return, “Why were you searching for me? . . . . Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?” (verse 49). Joseph and Mary did not understand Jesus’ words (verse 50). Whatever those around Him did not grasp, it seems that Jesus, at a very young age, did know that He was the Son of God and that the Father had foreordained the work He was to do.

After the incident in the temple, Luke says, “Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man” (Luke 2:52). If at this point in Jesus’ human experience He knew everything, He would not need to “grow in wisdom.” We emphasize that this was Jesus’ human experience. Jesus never ceased being God, but in some matters He veiled His divinity in accordance with the Father’s will. Thus, the Son subjected Himself to physical, intellectual, social, and spiritual growth. The Son of God voluntarily put Himself in the position of needing to assimilate knowledge as a man.

When did Jesus know that He was God? From the heavenly perspective, the Son knew from eternity past who He was and what His earthly work was to be. From the earthly perspective, the incarnate Jesus came to that realization at some point early in life. Just when that point was, we cannot know for sure.
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Skywalker · Nov 26, 2020

Trailblazer said: ↑

Paul saw the spirit of Jesus, not His body.
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Paul was an eyewitness of the resurrection of Jesus.

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