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Biblical Laws

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Hirohito18200, May 12, 2004.

  1. Hirohito18200

    Hirohito18200 Member

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    There is furios debate among christian denominations and between the christian community and the secular world at large. This debate takes on several faces, including homosexuality, divination, and others. However, these debates stem from one issue...

    There are 3 kinds of biblical laws. Moral, ceremonial, and general. The moral laws are basicall the 10 commandments. Fair enough. The ceremonial laws are kosher eating and such. However, the third kind of laws is where the problem lies. They were laws handed out to the Jews from God, to be obeyed by the Jews. These laws prohibit many things, including homosexuality, divination, sodomy, ect. Since Christians are not Jews, and therefore not bound by that covenent, because Christ destroyed it, are these laws still relevant to Christians today?

    P.S. if this turns into a debate could a mod move it? Thx 8)
     
  2. dudley thoth

    dudley thoth Member

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    You say that Jesus destroyed the Jewish covenant. What do you mean by that?

    Jesus said, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20)
     
  3. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Jesus "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

    Jeremiah many years before Jesus said that " Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD: but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more ."

    And Hebrews: For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    Concerning what you posted about Matthew 5:20 I'd like to take you to 5:17-20 first. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    I think when Jesus said this he was in the process still of fulfil.

    Jesus said, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20) Jesus said this when he left the multitudes, his disciples came unto him: and taught them.(his disciples) He basicly expressed his attitute toward the law, toward anger, Adultery, Divorce, Oaths, Love for Enemies, but it wasn't untill Christ's sacrifice and resurrection the law was fulfiled. Thus setting up the New Covenant or New Laws which is a very good covenant.
     
  4. Hirohito18200

    Hirohito18200 Member

    Joined:
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    Ratings:
    +16
    What I meant was this:

    The whole point of Jesus coming down to Earth was to open up salvation to people by other ways that becoming a Jew, ect. Just look at the church today. Dietary and ceremonial laws are not followed, and the only thing that can be agreed upon is the following of moral laws. I mean, when he died, the veil separating the people from the ark was torn, symbolizing a new covenant. Just in that, the laws describing how the temple is to be organized, and that no one can view the ark would have been broken, and God himself would have been the cause! If God can render a biblical law irrelevant, and we are to emulate God, what else can we do?
     
  5. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    ***Mod Post***

    Woowee, yeah, this is going to turn into a debate (how could it not?) so I'll move it to the debate forum.
     
  6. Hirohito18200

    Hirohito18200 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    241
    Ratings:
    +16
    There is furios debate among christian denominations and between the christian community and the secular world at large. This debate takes on several faces, including homosexuality, divination, and others. However, these debates stem from one issue...

    There are 3 kinds of biblical laws. Moral, ceremonial, and general. The moral laws are basicall the 10 commandments. Fair enough. The ceremonial laws are kosher eating and such. However, the third kind of laws is where the problem lies. They were laws handed out to the Jews from God, to be obeyed by the Jews. These laws prohibit many things, including homosexuality, divination, sodomy, ect. Since Christians are not Jews, and therefore not bound by that covenent, because Christ destroyed it, are these laws still relevant to Christians today?

    P.S. if this turns into a debate could a mod move it? Thx 8)
     
  7. dudley thoth

    dudley thoth Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    248
    Ratings:
    +2
    You say that Jesus destroyed the Jewish covenant. What do you mean by that?

    Jesus said, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20)
     
  8. true blood

    true blood Active Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    848
    Ratings:
    +36
    Jesus "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

    Jeremiah many years before Jesus said that " Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD: but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more ."

    And Hebrews: For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    Concerning what you posted about Matthew 5:20 I'd like to take you to 5:17-20 first. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    I think when Jesus said this he was in the process still of fulfil.

    Jesus said, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20) Jesus said this when he left the multitudes, his disciples came unto him: and taught them.(his disciples) He basicly expressed his attitute toward the law, toward anger, Adultery, Divorce, Oaths, Love for Enemies, but it wasn't untill Christ's sacrifice and resurrection the law was fulfiled. Thus setting up the New Covenant or New Laws which is a very good covenant.
     
  9. Hirohito18200

    Hirohito18200 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    241
    Ratings:
    +16
    What I meant was this:

    The whole point of Jesus coming down to Earth was to open up salvation to people by other ways that becoming a Jew, ect. Just look at the church today. Dietary and ceremonial laws are not followed, and the only thing that can be agreed upon is the following of moral laws. I mean, when he died, the veil separating the people from the ark was torn, symbolizing a new covenant. Just in that, the laws describing how the temple is to be organized, and that no one can view the ark would have been broken, and God himself would have been the cause! If God can render a biblical law irrelevant, and we are to emulate God, what else can we do?
     
  10. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,833
    Ratings:
    +189
    ***Mod Post***

    Woowee, yeah, this is going to turn into a debate (how could it not?) so I'll move it to the debate forum.
     
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