1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Biblical Gematria

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Bethsheba Ashe, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. Bethsheba Ashe

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Ratings:
    +86
    Religion:
    Research
    This thread is for discussions about biblical gematria, in either the Hebrew of the Tanakh or the Greek of the New Testament but only with biblical gematria; i.e. gematria using the following number sets;

    Hebrew:
    א 1 ב 2 ג 3 ש 3 ד 4 ת 4 ה 5 ו 6 ז 7 ח 8 ט 9 י 10 כ 20 ל 30 מ 40 נ 50 ס 60 ע 70 פ 80 צ 90 ק 100 ר 200
    ך 20 ם 40 ן 50 ף 80 ץ 90

    [​IMG]

    You can learn more about biblical gematria by visiting my blog(s) or my gematria calculator app:

    BethSheba Ashe - Author & Researcher in the Original Gematria and the Precursor to the Tree of Life
    Shematria Calculator
    Bethsheba Ashe's Blog

    As I discover new gematria in the bible I shall post it here, and you are welcome to join me.
    If you have any questions, let me know.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    807
    Ratings:
    +457
    Religion:
    agnostic
    Why does gematria matter? I used to have the Bible Codes program for my computer. You quickly learn how subjective the whole thing is.

    Spellings of Hebrew words vary over time.

    One has to assume that EVERY LETTER in the Bible is EXACTLY the same as in the original autographs. This is patently untrue as is evidenced by the myriad variations in the various manuscripts and fragments are still extant.

    Hebrew has no vowels. They are inferred or are read based on traditional readings.

    How do you spell the names of people whose names don't have a Semitic origin?

    When using codes, the skip interval can be chosen by the user until they find something they believe is significant.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    2,992
    Ratings:
    +1,560
    Religion:
    diversity
    I think Gematria is fun. So thanks for starting this thread.
    For me it's useful for helping to remember the meaning of words or passages in the OT.

    But I don't use it to render new conclusions. Just to support previously accepted concepts.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    807
    Ratings:
    +457
    Religion:
    agnostic
    Also known as confirmation bias.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Bethsheba Ashe

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Ratings:
    +86
    Religion:
    Research
    The "standard gematria" number set that is found in the Talmud is not used in the bible. Neither are any of the other gematria methods, because they were invented in the middle ages. The first thing to understand is that everyone has been using the wrong number set for the bible, and that is like putting the wrong key in a locked door. Secondly, biblical gematria isn’t about assuming that words which share the same value bear some type of mystical underlying relationship to one another. The words are the building bricks and the summation is the edifice completed. Some gematria calculations in the bible can run for several pages. They can have the feel of a dissertation or essay.

    What Gematria is…
    Gematria is written with a specific number set and read using exactly the same number set. I sometimes hear the argument put forward that it doesn’t really matter what number set you use, but this comes from the fallacy of believing that gematria is something imposed upon the text by the reader rather than an inherent feature of the text, deliberately put there by its authors. This is important to understand. If the point of the text is to tell you there are 365 days in a year, but your incorrect number set is giving you a different number, then the scribes meaning has been missed by you. It doesn’t matter what words share that same wrong number in the database. Its just wrong.

    I assume since you’re reading this that you’re familiar with the concept of written grammar, but have you ever paid mind to numerical grammar? It is by convention to numerical grammar that we structure our mathematical calculations the way that we do. For instance, understanding the sum [ 220 / 7 = 31.428571r ] requires us to know which elements of the sum are arranged where and for what reason. And before we do any calculation we also need to be familiar with the signs for math functions (like +, -, *, /, $, %, !) . Therefore, because we require knowledge of the conventions, we need some degree of formal education in order to do math, and the same is true for biblical gematria. There are numerical conventions for biblical gematria; it has a type of numerical grammar. There are hebrew words that are reserved to indicate where gematria is present (so there is no arbitrary skip interval), and what to do with it (add, multiply by 10, divide, subtract, etc).

    The Rabbi's have a way of checking that any new Torah scroll is identical to the original that is ancient in practice, and in actual fact they have managed to keep textual variation at a minimum.

    "How do you spell the names of people whose names don't have a Semitic origin?"
    You transliterate the best you can. :)

    "Hebrew has no vowels. They are inferred or are read based on traditional readings."
    I don't see the relevance to gematria? The vowels of a word do not affect its number.

    Why does it matter? There are 4 methods of biblical exegesis known as the PaRDeS. The last method (the Sod) is secret and not taught but nevertheless it is there and to fully understand any verse of the bible one must be able to navigate all four methods of exegesis and each interpretation must not negate the meaning of the other three. It matters if you want it all from any verse in the Torah you study, and if you want to know whether you've got it all too.
     
  6. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    2,992
    Ratings:
    +1,560
    Religion:
    diversity
    Guilty as charged, your honor :)

    Like I said... it's just for fun.
     
  7. Bethsheba Ashe

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Ratings:
    +86
    Religion:
    Research
    Let's begin with the Days of the Week:

    ראשון שני שלישי רביעי חמישי שישי שבת = 777

    Gematria # Hebrew Translation Name
    ראשון 260 Sunday Rishon
    שני 63 Monday Sheni
    שלישי 56 Tuesday Shlishi
    רביעי 292 Wednesday Revi’i
    חמישי 71 Thursday Chamishi
    שישי 26 Friday Shishi
    שבת 9 Saturday Shabbat
    = 777

    What are the odds that the days of the week would sum to 777? Pretty incredible, isn’t it?

    Which is more likely… that the days of the week sum to seven hundred and seventy seven by coincidence? Or that the seven words have been carefully pruned or developed at a very early stage of their language development to fit an ideal ‘perfect’ number to the glory of the God EL/YHVH... and remember that EL lived in seven palaces and the scribes of that time mainly belonged to the priesthood.
     
  8. Bethsheba Ashe

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Ratings:
    +86
    Religion:
    Research
    I'm probably going to be referencing the Seven Palaces (aka Ezekiel's "wheel') quite a lot for one reason or another so here it is:

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    10,925
    Ratings:
    +7,261
    Religion:
    Mega-Super-Ultra-Orthodox Judaism
    That is not evidence of anything except that there are variations among the various manuscripts and fragments. You can't disprove from there that the one that a particular text doesn't exactly parallel the original.
     
  10. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    9,594
    Ratings:
    +2,926
    Religion:
    Christian
    Looks complicated .. what is gematria?
     
  11. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    10,925
    Ratings:
    +7,261
    Religion:
    Mega-Super-Ultra-Orthodox Judaism
    What is most likely is that you've made a calculation based on a mistake (two of them actually) that lead to a happy little coincidence. The letters ש and ת are the last letters of the Hebrew alphabet. They are actually the last letters of the Semitic alphabets and the alphabets of derivative systems. However, for some reason you've placed them all the way at almost the beginning of the alphabet and mistakenly given them numbers 100 times less than their actual value.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. Bethsheba Ashe

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Ratings:
    +86
    Religion:
    Research
    Originally it was a way for people to do mathematics without having math signs. It developed into an art that could hide math in the plain text.
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    9,594
    Ratings:
    +2,926
    Religion:
    Christian
    Oh my...…….
     
  14. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    2,992
    Ratings:
    +1,560
    Religion:
    diversity
    A very good description, I think, comes from ChaBaD, Rabbi Aaron Raskin in the introduction to a book titled: Letters Of Light:

    "The Hebrew letters are multifaceted. The letters of the Hebrew alphabet, the alef-beis, are so rich with meaning that even Judaism’s greatest scholars had to engage in lengthy study to understand why G‑d made them as He did. Traditionally, Hebrew letters Possess: Design, Gematria, Meaning, Vowels, Crowns, Musical Note.

    When the same letters are transposed to form different words, they retain the common energy of their shared gematria. Because of this, the words maintain a connection in the different forms. "

    hyperlink >>> chabad.org - Letters Of Light: Introduction
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Bethsheba Ashe

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Ratings:
    +86
    Religion:
    Research
    This gematria originated with the Paleohebrew script (and possibly the Proto-Consonantal script) and the values are correct for the bible, as is the order. The reason for the placement of letters in that order is that the Seven Palaces are based on the number 31 (for the name of El) and when the shin and the tav are placed in their correct order then the sum of their order totals to 217 (31 x 7). i.e.

    1+2+3+3+4+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14+15+16+17+18+19+20=217.
    Just like the sum of the letters on the palaces; באראהדד = 217
    Or the gate of the central path leading to the seventh palace; בגהזר = 217

    We could put this single example with the days of the week down to a happy accident if that's all there was, however there is just too much gematria present in the Torah to be able to do that. There is a wealth of it!

    My favourite examples of gematria are the ones where the text actually confirms itself. For instance, when Abraham (248) receives his name he is told “of many nations I have made thee” which totals to the same number (248). In Exodus 3:14 “I am has sent me unto you” (223) is the same value as 3:15 “My name forever”:

    ויאמר אלהים אל־משה אהיה אשר אהיה ויאמר כה תאמר לבני ישראל אהיה שלחני אליכם
    And said Elohim unto Moses – I am that I am – and he said – Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel – I am has sent me unto you.

    אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה 21 ~ I Am
    יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל 244 ~ Israel
    אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם 223 : I Am has sent me unto you
    244 – 223 = 21
    See also 3:15:
    223 שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם : My name forever

    I'm just scratching the surface with these examples. The gematria of the bible is sophisticated and there;s probably more of it than anyone could study in a single lifetime, starting on page 1:

    בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית + אֱלֹהִ֑ים + הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם + הָאָֽרֶץ
    In the beginning + Elohim + The Heavens + The Earth = 700. From Genesis 1:1

    פְּנֵ֣י תְה֑וֹם - וְחֹ֖שֶׁךְ + אֽוֹר
    The Face of the Deep - Darkness + Light = 365; the number of days in a year. See Genesis 1:2-3.

    But the best examples of gematria come from Ezekiel, who pulls the whiskers of the King of Tyre with it. There is a lot of fun stuff in Ezekiel behind the scenes. :D
     
  16. Bethsheba Ashe

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Ratings:
    +86
    Religion:
    Research
  17. Bethsheba Ashe

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Ratings:
    +86
    Religion:
    Research
    Genesis 4:2

    הֶ֙בֶל֙ אָחִ֖יו וַֽיְהִי = 93
    And was Abel his brother.
     
  18. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    2,992
    Ratings:
    +1,560
    Religion:
    diversity
    Kayin and Hevel are discussed in the 5 volume english translation of the Zohar starting on page 171. The Zohar has this page labeled 54a.

    It's interesting reading. I'm looking for connections to 160 ( Kayin ) and 37 ( Hevel ).

    The first thing that jumps out at me is the simple gematria. Kayin 160 reduces to 7 and Hevel 37 reduces to 10.

    That makes sense: 7 is a sword, 10 is eternal. Feel free to double check my math.

    I'll let you know if i find anything else.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Bethsheba Ashe

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Ratings:
    +86
    Religion:
    Research
    Thanks. I'm finding the 293 interesting, because it shows up just before Adam and Eve leave the garden of Eden, when it says they know good and evil;

    ט֥וֹב + וָרָֽע : Good + Evil = 293

    קין + איש + יהוה + הֶ֙בֶל֙ + וַֽיְהִי + אָחִ֖יו = 293
    Cain + Man + YHVH + Abel + and was + his brother
     
    #19 Bethsheba Ashe, Apr 17, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  20. Bethsheba Ashe

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Ratings:
    +86
    Religion:
    Research
    Genesis 4:4

    וַיִּ֣שַׁע + יְהוָ֔ה + הֶ֖בֶל + מִנְחָתֽוֹ = 260
    And looked favorably YHVH Abel's offering

    260 is the gate value of the left hand column of the seven palaces, which would be interesting if the other values of 282 (central column) or 235 (right column) show up.
     
Loading...