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Bible's Different Beliefs

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by muizz99, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. muizz99

    muizz99 Sunni Muslim

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    *Jesus is not the God/Jesus is not equal with the father/God is One/Alone:

    John 14:28

    28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you
    would be glad that I am going to the Father,
    for the Father is greater than I.

    Mark 6:5

    He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.

    Mark 8:22-26

    22 They came to Bethsaida, and some people brought a blind man and begged Jesus to
    touch him.

    23 He took the blind man by the hand and led him outside the village. When he
    had spit on the man’s eyes and put his hands
    on him, Jesus asked, “Do you see anything?”

    24 He looked up and said, “I see people; they look like trees walking around.”

    25 Once more Jesus put his hands on the man’s eyes. Then his eyes were opened, his
    sight was restored, and he saw everything
    clearly.

    26 Jesus sent him home, saying, “Don’t even go into[a] the village.”

    Mark 13:32

    32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the
    Son, but only the Father.

    Matthew 24:36

    "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

    Luke 2:52

    52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

    Hebrews 5:8

    8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered

    Mark 11:12-13

    12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:

    13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any
    thing thereon: and when he came to it, he
    found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs
    was not yet.

    Malachi 3:6

    6 “I the LORD do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.

    Isaiah 43:10-11

    10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.

    11 I, even I, am the LORD, 11 and apart from me there is no savior.

    *Jesus is equal to the father/Jesus is the God

    John 5:16-24

    16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to
    persecute him.

    17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to
    this very day, and I too am working.”

    18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the
    Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own
    Father, making himself equal with God.

    19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
    he can do only what he sees his Father doing,
    because whatever the Father does the Son
    also does.

    20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will
    show him even greater works than these, so
    that you will be amazed.

    21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life,
    even so the Son gives life to whom he is
    pleased to give it.

    22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all
    judgment to the Son,

    23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
    Whoever does not honor the Son does not
    honor the Father, who sent him.

    24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has
    eternal life and will not be judged but has
    crossed over from death to life.

    4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

    5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and
    with all your strength.

    Mark 12:28-30

    28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus
    had given them a good answer, he asked him,
    “Of all the commandments, which is the most
    important?”

    29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our
    God, the Lord is one.

    30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your
    soul and with all your mind and with all your
    strength.’

    Mark 12:32-34

    32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and
    there is no other but him.

    33 To love him with all your heart, with all your
    understanding and with all your strength,
    and to love your neighbor as yourself is more
    important than all burnt offerings and
    sacrifices.”

    34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from
    the kingdom of God.” And from then on no
    one dared ask him any more questions.

    Mark 10:17-29

    17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good
    teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to
    inherit eternal life?”

    18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God
    alone.

    19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit
    adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not
    give false testimony, you shall not defraud,
    honor your father and mother.’

    20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

    21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything
    you have and give to the poor, and you will
    have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow
    me.”

    22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

    23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to
    enter the kingdom of God!”

    24 The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!

    25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a
    needle than for someone who is rich to enter
    the kingdom of God.”

    26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be
    saved?”

    27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things
    are possible with God.”

    28 Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!”

    29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or
    mother or father or children or fields for me
    and the gospel

    Quran accept some commandments:

    Quran 2:163

    And your god is one God. There is no deity
    [worthy of worship] except Him, the Entirely
    Merciful, the Especially Merciful.

    Quran 2:164

    Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and
    earth, and the alternation of the night and
    the day, and the [great] ships which sail
    through the sea with that which benefits
    people, and what Allah has sent down from
    the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and
    dispersing therein every [kind of] moving
    creature, and [His] directing of the winds
    and the clouds controlled between the
    heaven and the earth are signs for a people
    who use reason.

    Quran 2:165

    And [yet], among the people are those who
    take other than Allah as equals [to Him].
    They love them as they [should] love Allah .
    But those who believe are stronger in love
    for Allah . And if only they who have wronged
    would consider [that] when they see the punishment, [they will be certain] that all
    power belongs to Allah and that Allah is
    severe in punishment.

    *Jesus is not the Son of God:

    Logic: Because, God didn't marry virgin mary/God didn't commit an adultery to virgin mary/God didn't say (you will be pregnant) or (you will be my wife/you are the Goddess)

    *Jesus is God's Son/Jesus is Holy Ghost's Son:

    Matthew 3:16-17 ESV

    And when Jesus was baptized, immediately
    he went up from the water, and behold, the
    heavens were opened to him, and he saw the
    Spirit of God descending like a dove and
    coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice
    from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

    Luke 3:21-22 ESV

    Now when all the people were baptized, and
    when Jesus also had been baptized and was
    praying, the heavens were opened, and the
    Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form,
    like a dove; and a voice came from heaven,
    “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”

    Mark 1:11 ESV

    And a voice came from heaven, “You are my
    beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”

    Matthew 10:20

    For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of
    your Father speaking through you.

    (There is no such word as "trinity" in the Bible)

    Do you think the bible is changed, inauthentic, or corrupted?
     
    #1 muizz99, Apr 4, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
  2. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    That is view a held by some Christians
    Most christians believe that The Trinity is the substance of a God head.
    Some would maintain That God the father, His Son and the Holy spirit form a God head.
    Some like Unitarians Believe in God, and that Jesus was his Son

    The Bible is a collection of ancient religious writings by various authors collected into two volumes. Like all writings they are the opinions and collections of recollections. And contain Histories, laws, songs, fables and established beliefs.
    The Bible is informative, instructional and a source of ancient beliefs about God.
    It contains a wide range of teachings from Jesus and the apostles.
    It is not the literal word of God. ( though some believe so)

    The Bible benefits from interpretation in the light of every new circumstance.
    Each new translation goes back to the earliest available original documents and take into account the changes in meaning over time and the differences in society.

    Unlike the Quran It does not try to fit the unchanged words "However inspired" In to a society for which they have little meaning.
    Christians understand that Change is inevitable, and that Jesus Teachings must be interpreted and applied in the light of that change.
     
  3. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Uh. It does not take a marriage to make a baby.
     
  4. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
    Premium Member

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    Yes, the Father is greater than the Son. But not because the Father is God and the Son is not; both are truly and fully God. However, the Father is greater in terms of the inner relationships in the Trinity: The Father is the source of the Trinity, and it is from Him that the Son is begotten.

    Healing people is a miracle. If very few of the people had no faith and would not come to Him, then how could He work more miracles?

    What's the point of this supposed to be?

    Jesus didn't know while He kept Himself mostly restricted to His human faculties. But after His Resurrection and Ascension, we can surmise that He does, in fact, know when the Day of Judgement is.

    Jesus says this in Revelations 22:12-13
    12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

    "favor" is better translated as "grace" here.

    He learned obedience through His human will. When our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ became incarnate, He had to learn everything just like we did. He had to learn to walk, to talk, to use the outhouse, to read, to write, and everything else, as a part of sharing in our human experience. Along with learning all of those things, He also learned obedience to God the Father, He Who Himself was truly God and one with the Father.

    Jesus did that as a parable to teach His Apostles.

    Yep.

    Already covered this in the Christianity DIR. If you want me to copypaste my points from there, let me know.

    All the Scripture you posted here is good, but there's even more where that came from. :yes:

    Your "logic" doesn't take the time to understand exactly how God the Son became incarnate.

    Nope.
     
  5. Reverend Richard

    Reverend Richard New Thought Minister

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    <lots of scriptural references deleted.....>
    All of the above. I believe scripture is important, but it is not primary. All scripture, whether written, memorized and/or recited, is imperfect because a human was involved at some stage during the process. Even "divinely inspired" humans are subject to error and bias. In fact, I believe that as you pile scripture on top of scripture to either make or prove a point, you are simply increasing the likelyhood of introducing even more error into your conclusion or to your point.

    IMHO, as much as we would like to believe otherwise, scripture is not like science.

    Science can be legitimately used to prove science. Science can also be legitimately used to disprove science. It's called peer review, and in the long run it keeps (most of) science honest.

    Can scripture be used to prove scripture? Yes. Can scipture be used to disprove other scripture? People do it, but when that happens someone gets their feelings hurt, or worse.
     
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  6. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    Instead of trying to pick on someone else's beliefs and faith.

    Would you like to talk about your own?

    Do you think your book of personal choice is inauthentic, or corrupted?

    If your in a glass house, its not wise to throw rocks about wildly.
     
  7. Reverend Richard

    Reverend Richard New Thought Minister

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    :yes:
     
  8. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Nor does it require sex
     
  9. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

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    The 'bible' is not changed. You said it yourself when you said
    "there is no such word as the "trinity" in the bible"

    That is exactly right. Now think about it carefully for a moment. If the majority of christians are teaching that God is a trinity, dont you think that the bible should have that teaching in it somewhere?

    Let me ask that again...... they are teaching that God is a trinity, but the bible does NOT say God is a trinity.

    The claim is that christians 'CHANGED' the bible to suit their teachings, yet their major teaching of the 'trinity' IS NOT IN THE BIBLE.
    So if this teaching is not in the bible, Why not?


    So did anyone really change the bible to suit their false teachings? No. And the fact that the trinity is not in the bible is absolute proof that it has not been changed.
     
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