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Bible versions

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
I have discovered dozens of discrepancies between bible translations.


Most appear innocuous. But are they?


I don’t have to go far into the Bible for my first example.


Let’s look at Genesis 1:1


King James Version:

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”


Ok. Very nice. There is a lot here to unpack.

First, we see there is a beginning. Of something.

We find how this something was created.

In the literal; many, many ideas can be had regarding what is going on.

In the inner (or spiritual) understanding, it is more easily understood.

But even then, one knows that there is still much more to discover than what is known. Amazing nuances that will take an eternity to fully discover. (I’m still only talking about Genesis 1:1)


Now, let’s look at the NIV version:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”


Ok. If I read these two versions aloud, most people would think they are the same. Their minds wouldn’t catch the difference because they expect them to be the same. Even reading them, some people will not see the difference.


Obviously there is one. Is it a big deal?

To the literal reader, it could be, but probably is not.

But to the spiritual understanding, there is a pretty sizable change.

At least, to me, the meaning that I understood from the KJV, has now been obliterated.


My third version is the Good News Translation:

“In the beginning, when God created the universe,”


Well, here we have some significant changes.

First, the word “when” has been added. This changes the tone completely. But the disaster is what now is being described as created.

The universe. Ummm. Even, in the literal, this can be disturbing. Or not.


Anyway. No longer do we have anything resembling what was spoken by God.

Thoughts?

I understand that in the big picture view for the vast majority of people, these things are meaningless. I would guess that there are very few who would be interested in precisely what is happening in Genesis, yet there are a those who want to discover what God is telling his people. Those few are interested in truth.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
The Hebrew for this verse is not simple, so each translation will differ according to how one reads it in the Hebrew.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I have discovered dozens of discrepancies between bible translations.


Most appear innocuous. But are they?


I don’t have to go far into the Bible for my first example.


Let’s look at Genesis 1:1


King James Version:

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”


Ok. Very nice. There is a lot here to unpack.

First, we see there is a beginning. Of something.

We find how this something was created.

In the literal; many, many ideas can be had regarding what is going on.

In the inner (or spiritual) understanding, it is more easily understood.

But even then, one knows that there is still much more to discover than what is known. Amazing nuances that will take an eternity to fully discover. (I’m still only talking about Genesis 1:1)


Now, let’s look at the NIV version:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”


Ok. If I read these two versions aloud, most people would think they are the same. Their minds wouldn’t catch the difference because they expect them to be the same. Even reading them, some people will not see the difference.


Obviously there is one. Is it a big deal?

To the literal reader, it could be, but probably is not.

But to the spiritual understanding, there is a pretty sizable change.

At least, to me, the meaning that I understood from the KJV, has now been obliterated.


My third version is the Good News Translation:

“In the beginning, when God created the universe,”


Well, here we have some significant changes.

First, the word “when” has been added. This changes the tone completely. But the disaster is what now is being described as created.

The universe. Ummm. Even, in the literal, this can be disturbing. Or not.


Anyway. No longer do we have anything resembling what was spoken by God.

Thoughts?

I understand that in the big picture view for the vast majority of people, these things are meaningless. I would guess that there are very few who would be interested in precisely what is happening in Genesis, yet there are a those who want to discover what God is telling his people. Those few are interested in truth.
This is why people need to not be dependent on inferior translations. The only thing you can really do is work to become fluent in the original Hebrew so that you can read the actual text. בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ. This is of course a struggle for adults. I don't understand why Christians don't begin by teaching their young children the languages of their scriptures, so that their children grow up fluent and able to go directly to the source.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I have discovered dozens of discrepancies between bible translations.


Most appear innocuous. But are they?


I don’t have to go far into the Bible for my first example.


Let’s look at Genesis 1:1


King James Version:

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”


Ok. Very nice. There is a lot here to unpack.

First, we see there is a beginning. Of something.

We find how this something was created.

In the literal; many, many ideas can be had regarding what is going on.

In the inner (or spiritual) understanding, it is more easily understood.

But even then, one knows that there is still much more to discover than what is known. Amazing nuances that will take an eternity to fully discover. (I’m still only talking about Genesis 1:1)


Now, let’s look at the NIV version:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”


Ok. If I read these two versions aloud, most people would think they are the same. Their minds wouldn’t catch the difference because they expect them to be the same. Even reading them, some people will not see the difference.


Obviously there is one. Is it a big deal?

To the literal reader, it could be, but probably is not.

But to the spiritual understanding, there is a pretty sizable change.

At least, to me, the meaning that I understood from the KJV, has now been obliterated.


My third version is the Good News Translation:

“In the beginning, when God created the universe,”


Well, here we have some significant changes.

First, the word “when” has been added. This changes the tone completely. But the disaster is what now is being described as created.

The universe. Ummm. Even, in the literal, this can be disturbing. Or not.


Anyway. No longer do we have anything resembling what was spoken by God.

Thoughts?

I understand that in the big picture view for the vast majority of people, these things are meaningless. I would guess that there are very few who would be interested in precisely what is happening in Genesis, yet there are a those who want to discover what God is telling his people. Those few are interested in truth.
Hmm. Interesting observation.
I'll only say that the Good News Bible is a paraphrased.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Thanks, as I wasn't aware of that.
It is among many better Christian translations that are out today, of which the New International Version and the New American Standard Bible are considered by Christian scholars to be the two competitors to take the place of the old KJV as the standard for Chrisitans.

Of course, none of these are good translations in Jewish eyes, because they look to the Septuagint when translating the Tanakh (what Christians cal teh "Old" Testament). Translating from a translation is always a very bad idea.

The one very good exception to this rule of thumb that I know of is the New American Bible -- it is translated entirely from the original Hebrew text and a is by far a better translation of the Tanakh than any of the other Christian translations I've seen. I couldn't say how good it's Greek translation is.
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
I have discovered dozens of discrepancies between bible translations.
Indeed. There are several excellent works on the subject, some of which I can recommend if necessary.

Most appear innocuous. But are they?
Appearances can be deceiving, and in this case, are so. They, the differences, are in the main, not innocuous.

I don’t have to go far into the Bible for my first example.

Let’s look at Genesis 1:1
Yes. For the first place that a person with ill intent would want to start to unravel another's beliefs, would be to start at their foundation.

King James Version:

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”

Ok. Very nice. There is a lot here to unpack.

First, we see there is a beginning. Of something.

We find how this something was created.

In the literal; many, many ideas can be had regarding what is going on.

In the inner (or spiritual) understanding, it is more easily understood.
Yet the scripture itself tells us how to understand it, as the natural is to be understood first, then later the spiritual. For instance, a metaphor or symbol, could be of no use, unless the natural objects, etc that are used for such are known for what they are first.

See

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.​

But even then, one knows that there is still much more to discover than what is known. Amazing nuances that will take an eternity to fully discover. (I’m still only talking about Genesis 1:1)


Now, let’s look at the NIV version:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”


Ok. If I read these two versions aloud, most people would think they are the same. Their minds wouldn’t catch the difference because they expect them to be the same. Even reading them, some people will not see the difference.


Obviously there is one. Is it a big deal?

To the literal reader, it could be, but probably is not.

But to the spiritual understanding, there is a pretty sizable change.

At least, to me, the meaning that I understood from the KJV, has now been obliterated.
In part I can agree, and will leave it at that for the moment.

My third version is the Good News Translation:

“In the beginning, when God created the universe,”

Well, here we have some significant changes.
I can agree, as the text in no way should read "universe", as that was already in existence before Genesis 1:1, which is where God is creating from in the '3rd Heaven', and all the Heavenly angelic hosts and their worlds already existed.

First, the word “when” has been added. This changes the tone completely. But the disaster is what now is being described as created.

The universe. Ummm. Even, in the literal, this can be disturbing. Or not.
It does not disturb me that the universe is created, because it is, but that the NIV places this event in Genesis 1:1, which would contradict other verses in itself. The NIV is a gross distortion to God's word.

Anyway. No longer do we have anything resembling what was spoken by God.
In the NIV in Genesis 1:1, basically agreed, though the word "spoken" I would have read "inspired" in your sentence.

Thoughts?
Basically a interesting subject to think about, so long as one does not get mired in nuances and miss the whole purpose, or reason, as to why the book (even books) exist in the first place. Namely that of redemption of fallen mankind through Christ Jesus and the Holy Ghost/Spirit into the image and likeness of God, and restoration to the first dominion, without sin.

I understand that in the big picture view for the vast majority of people, these things are meaningless.
That is more than likely because they have never thought to sit down and really think about "every word" that God inspired and so also preserved (Psalms 12:6-7).

I would guess that there are very few who would be interested in precisely what is happening in Genesis, yet there are a those who want to discover what God is telling his people. Those few are interested in truth.
Yes, a love of the truth is a must.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Here are some helpful materials on Bible versions (see entire playlist):


One can also go here - Library of Resources: - SDA Maranatha Multicultural Church in American Samoa

Just go to section:

The preserved word of God (Psalms 12:6-7) in the English language – The King James Bible (KJB) – AV1611 – Vindicated Files (PDF & Powerpoint):
I really don't give a hoot what version you use for your Christian Scriptures, since they are not the Word of God and are riddled with doctrinal perversions and misrepresentations of the Tanakh (what you mistakenly call the "Old" Testament).

As for the Tanakh, the King James Version is one of the worst. But really all Christian translations are pretty bad, since they translate from another translation called the Septuagint (which is Greek). It's like making a copy of a copy. Any time you translate from a translation, even more of the original is lost. Also, Christians translate some verses deliberately in error in order to conform to Christian doctrine.

The Tanakh is the Hebrew texts. Period. All translations are inferior. But if you MUST use an English translation because you don't know Hebrew, please use a Jewish one, so that you get one closer to the original Hebrew texts.

And stop listening to YouTube. It's one of the most unreliable sources of information in the world.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
This is why people need to not be dependent on inferior translations. The only thing you can really do is work to become fluent in the original Hebrew so that you can read the actual text. בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ.
That isn't the original Hebrew. The vowel pointings are a late addition.

The vowel pointings are a bit like the commentary in the Schofield Bible, it's a layer of interpretation which is a vehicle for ideological bias.
 
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Ebionite

Well-Known Member
As for the Tanakh, the King James Version is one of the worst. But really all Christian translations are pretty bad, since they translate from another translation called the Septuagint (which is Greek).

That's incorrect. The Septuagint of Jeremiah is wildly different to the Masoretic, and the KJV follows the Masoretic. Paul usually quotes from the Septuagint, though.

Isaiah 53:8

ἐν τῇ ταπεινώσει ἡ κρίσις αὐτοῦ ἤρθη· τὴν δὲ γενεὰν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται; ὅτι αἴρεται ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς ἡ ζωὴ αὐτοῦ, ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνομιῶν τοῦ λαοῦ μου ἤχθη εἰς θάνατον.
LXX

In [his] humiliation his judgment was taken away: who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken away from the earth: because of the iniquities of my people he was led to death[θάνατον].
LXX

מעצר וממשפט לקח ואת־דורו מי ישוחח כי נגזר מארץ חיים מפשע עמי נגע למו׃
MSS

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken[נגע].
KJV
 
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Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Now, let’s look at the NIV version:

Psalm 8:4

what is man[אנוש] that thou art mindful of him, and the son of man[אדם] that thou dost care for him?
KJV

The KJV doesn't distinguish between אנוש and אדם.

But the NIV fouls it up completely with its humanism.

what is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them?[fn]
NIV

fn: Or what is a human being that you are mindful of him, / a son of man that you care for him?
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That isn't the original Hebrew. The vowel pointings are a late addition.

The vowel pointings are a bit like the commentary in the Schofield Bible, it's a layer of interpretation which is a vehicle for ideological bias.
Sure, the vowel points were added later. The oral knowledge of how to read the text was passed down. Christians and Jews have no arguments over this.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That's incorrect. The Septuagint of Jeremiah is wildly different to the Masoretic, and the KJV follows the Masoretic. Paul usually quotes from the Septuagint, though.

Isaiah 53:8

ἐν τῇ ταπεινώσει ἡ κρίσις αὐτοῦ ἤρθη· τὴν δὲ γενεὰν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται; ὅτι αἴρεται ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς ἡ ζωὴ αὐτοῦ, ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνομιῶν τοῦ λαοῦ μου ἤχθη εἰς θάνατον.
LXX

In [his] humiliation his judgment was taken away: who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken away from the earth: because of the iniquities of my people he was led to death[θάνατον].
LXX

מעצר וממשפט לקח ואת־דורו מי ישוחח כי נגזר מארץ חיים מפשע עמי נגע למו׃
MSS

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken[נגע].
KJV
Yes, all the quotations in the Christian scriptures are from the Septuagint.

The KJV draws from three sources: the Masoretic, the Septuagint, and the Vulgate (a Latin translation). I forget what exact manuscripts.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Yes, all the quotations in the Christian scriptures are from the Septuagint.
No, Paul must have had access to a proto-Masoretic copy of Isaiah.

1 Corinthians 15
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Isaiah 25 (KJV)

8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord YHWH will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for YHWH hath spoken it.

Isaiah 25 (LXX)

8 Death has prevailed and swallowed men up; but again the Lord God has taken away every tear from every face. He has taken away the reproach of his people from all the earth: for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it.

The oral knowledge of how to read the text was passed down. Christians and Jews have no arguments over this.
It's not purely knowledge.

How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of YHWH is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
Jeremiah 8:8

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Matthew 32:27
 
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