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bible versions and contradictions

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by maty, Apr 18, 2006.

  1. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Not at all.

    if there are many sources which have the same accounts, and these sources are not related to each other, than I will conclude that it is likely that the accounts are accurate.

    However, if the accounts have significant differences and are related and I can't check many other sources for their accuracy, then I will be less likely to believe it.

    For example...

    I research a person named J. Smith...

    Source one says Joe Smith was a mechanic
    Source two says Joseph Smith was an autotechnician
    Source three says Joey S.worked on cars
    Source four says that Mr Smith was a greasemonkey
    Source five says J. Smith worked in an autorepair shop

    it's safe to conclude that there is someone by the name of Joseph Smith who fixes cars for a living, yes?

    However, if...

    Source one says Joe Smith was a mechanic
    Source two says that Justin Smith worked as a flight attendant
    Source three says that James Smith died as an infant

    I'm hardly going to conclude that they were speaking about the same person, am I?

    Yet, there are differneces similar to these in the Bible, and the most common result, it seems, is that people create elaborate excuses to avouid it.

    Yes, James Smith was involved in a terrible accident when he was an infant and was clinically dead for three minutes, and afterwards his name was changed to Joe because his parents wanted to avoid the trauma of the memories of what happened to baby James. After joe left school, he got a job as a mechanic, but he found out about what his parents did, and he wanted to distance himself from the lie that his parents had told him. So he quit his mechanic job and got a job as a flight attendent and changed his name to Justin, because his parents told him his name had originally been Justin. (They really didn't want him to be known as James again, so they lied a second time about his name.) And I know it's true because my research clearly shows that James Smith was involved in a freak accident as a child, and that later, Joe Smith was a mechanic, and several years after, Justin Smith was a flight steward. Plus, I really feel it in my heart, so it's gotta be true, golly gee, it's just gotta!

    You laugh when I do it with J. Smith, yet when people do it to the Bible, it's all of a sudden so plausible.
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    But, the Bible is a compilation of many different accounts, all of which largely stand in agreement to each other about the nature and intent of God, and God's relationship to God's people. The differences are differences of viewpoint and not substance.
     
  3. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    If you could give me an example of this I would be happy to show exactly how the research arrives at the conclusions most people accept.
     
  4. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Okay.

    When did Ahaziah begin to reign? Eleventh or twelfth year?

    There are many more here.
     
  5. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    That's pretty darn close for something that had been strictly oral tradition for hundreds of years. Don't get hung up on the picayune.
     
  6. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Did you have a look at the link?

    And besides, if it is the word of God, why the differnece at all? Surely God could have made sure it was a bit more accurate?
     
  7. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    We need a more precise definition here. It's the Word of God filtered through the lens of human perspective and understanding. It wasn't a dictation job. Different writers had different perspectives. Just as we do.
     
  8. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    There's no disclaimer anywhere in any scripture that explains just what criteria must be applied to scripture to test its authenticity. This only started when pagan philosophy started rooting itself into the church and they had to start weeding out the spurious texts. Unfortunately they applied human reasoning to their search and could only reach very tentative conclusions. God has never said (to mainstream Christianity) how to determine what it inspired or what inspired scripture should be or not be.
     
  9. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    So God allowed it to come to us even though he knew it was unclear and contradictory?
     
  10. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Precisely. God wants our HEARTS... not for us to be automatons. He wants us to rely on his Spirit to reveal his will so we can't rely on our intellect.
     
  11. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    He purposely makes it so we can't rely on our intellect when he has given us intellect in order to be able to find out about the universe?

    Every single scientific advancement has been because of intellect. Space travel, internet, communication, medicine - all intellect. intellect is a proven tool. And yet, god created us with this tool to learn, and then he hides from it? And the only way to find God is to disregard it?!
     
  12. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Yeppers... It makes sense that way. Just look at the pride that comes with most every scientific discovery.

    I Corinthians 8:1 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But the man who loves God is known by God. NIV

    I Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
    "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
    the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

    20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. NIV

    And finally...

    Job 28:12 "But where can wisdom be found?
    Where does understanding dwell?


    13 Man does not comprehend its worth;
    it cannot be found in the land of the living.

    14 The deep says, 'It is not in me';
    the sea says, 'It is not with me.'

    15 It cannot be bought with the finest gold,
    nor can its price be weighed in silver.

    16 It cannot be bought with the gold of Ophir,
    with precious onyx or sapphires.

    17 Neither gold nor crystal can compare with it,
    nor can it be had for jewels of gold.

    18 Coral and jasper are not worthy of mention;
    the price of wisdom is beyond rubies.

    19 The topaz of Cush cannot compare with it;
    it cannot be bought with pure gold.

    20 "Where then does wisdom come from?
    Where does understanding dwell?

    21 It is hidden from the eyes of every living thing,
    concealed even from the birds of the air.

    22 Destruction and Death say,
    'Only a rumor of it has reached our ears.'
    23 God understands the way to it
    and he alone knows where it dwells
    , NIV

    BTW, ALL of Job 28 is worthwhile reading. :D
     
  13. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    So God wants to keep us from being wise, he wants to keep us from using the gift of reason he gave us?

     
  14. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Quite the contrary... God wants you to learn to rely on your conscience... not just your head. Which is more important: love or wisdom? If your answer is the former, then fulfillment is yours. If it's the latter, then you will never be fulfilled.

    Ecclesiastes:1:12 I, the Teacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 I devoted myself to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under heaven. What a heavy burden God has laid on men! 14 I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

    15 What is twisted cannot be straightened;
    what is lacking cannot be counted.

    16 I thought to myself, "Look, I have grown and increased in wisdom more than anyone who has ruled over Jerusalem before me; I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge." 17 Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind. 18 For with much wisdom comes much sorrow;
    the more knowledge, the more grief.
    NIV
     
  15. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Would a truly loving God only allow us one? Would he want us to remain ignorant if we are to be loved?
     
  16. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    You're missing the point here, T.

    Love is everything.

    Ignorance is optional.
     
  17. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    You gave us the choice. Love OR Wisdom. Can we not have both with a loving God? If we do not have wisom, then aren't we ignorant?
     
  18. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    That's right. Because the Bible seeks to reveal God, and not to prove God, the Bible is great, just as it is. Revelation comes to different people in different ways, so it has to be broad in its context. Were it a scientific study, or a textbook, it would be narrow in context.

    I think you're asking the Bible to be something it is not intended to be...
     
  19. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    And you keep pretending it to be something that it is not. It's a shallow pretense.
     
  20. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    If you don't like it, you don't have to read it. Perhaps, if you had a better grasp of the Bible and the precepts it stands for, you wouldn't be so quick to make disparaging and untoward remarks.
     
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