bible verses

[james bogosian]

can the bible give us specific information about where someone will go to after they die assuming it wasnt a natural death or not? this is what i mean, back in 1997 there was a shootout between two bank robbers and police in north hollywood, california and assuming that one of those bank robbers killed a police officer before being killed himself, would god forgive him for what he did or not? North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia would god forgive them or not? how does god determine when to forgive someone who has killed someone else then? what can the bible tell us about this? when does god forgive a murderer and when not? would we able to find such specific information in some passage within the bible or not? would a bible expert know more about this?

 

[Spirit of Light]

can the bible give us specific information about where someone will go to after they die assuming it wasnt a natural death or not? this is what i mean, back in 1997 there was a shootout between two bank robbers and police in north hollywood, california and assuming that one of those bank robbers killed a police officer before being killed himself, would god forgive him for what he did or not? North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia would god forgive them or not? how does god determine when to forgive someone who has killed someone else then? what can the bible tell us about this? when does god forgive a murderer and when not? would we able to find such specific information in some passage within the bible or not? would a bible expert know more about this?

Does not the 10 commandments give Christians a clue about this? 5th commandment is you shall not kill. The difference in murder and an accident where someone dies would be clear. If a person kill on purpose they will have to pay for their sin according to the bible.

 

[Kenny]

can the bible give us specific information about where someone will go to after they die assuming it wasnt a natural death or not? this is what i mean, back in 1997 there was a shootout between two bank robbers and police in north hollywood, california and assuming that one of those bank robbers killed a police officer before being killed himself, would god forgive him for what he did or not? North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia would god forgive them or not? how does god determine when to forgive someone who has killed someone else then? what can the bible tell us about this? when does god forgive a murderer and when not? would we able to find such specific information in some passage within the bible or not? would a bible expert know more about this?

Unfortunately it is impossible to know although murder can be forgiven. There were two thieves on the cross, one was forgiven but the other wasn't because of a repentant heart. Only God knows the heart at the time of death.

God is ultimately the judge and not us and He will always be just, merciful and fair. IMV. A person was selfish, didn't help the poor and had a hardened heart in this life and went to Hell.

I have heard stories of people who were heading to Hell and call out to Jesus on the trip down and were rescued so even at death one cannot know what is happening and what is going on in their hearts.

King David murdered and was forgiven. Saul, who later became Paul, was forgiven even though he murdered. The heart was still the issue. A man who had a hardened heart and didn't give a hoot for a poor man ended up in Hell... The heart was still the issue.

 

[Deeje]

can the bible give us specific information about where someone will go to after they die assuming it wasnt a natural death or not? this is what i mean, back in 1997 there was a shootout between two bank robbers and police in north hollywood, california and assuming that one of those bank robbers killed a police officer before being killed himself, would god forgive him for what he did or not? North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia would god forgive them or not? how does god determine when to forgive someone who has killed someone else then? what can the bible tell us about this? when does god forgive a murderer and when not? would we able to find such specific information in some passage within the bible or not? would a bible expert know more about this?

I have a completely different take on this......firstly, sin and error were inherited from our first parents (Romans 5:12) and God knows that we have sinful tendencies. He gave us laws because of that, but at the same time, no one is permitted to break his laws without penalty.

In the Bible, the highest penalty under the law was death. It says at Romans 6:23..."For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." The gift that Jesus gave us is forgiveness of our sins by dying instead of us. That means that once we have paid sin's wages with our own death, there is no other penalty...according to Romans 6:5..."For the one who has died has been acquitted (pardoned) from his sin."

Since there is no such place as "hell", and not all good people go to heaven (a scenario made up by Christendom) it is clear to me that those who died have not gone anywhere...they are sleeping peacefully in their graves awaiting a call from Jesus to awaken and come out of their graves. (John 5:28-29; John 11:11-14) Those called from the graves are "the righteous and the unrighteous" who are both called from the same place, which means they all went to the same place....'sheol" (Hebrew) or "hades" (Greek). (Ecclesiastes 9:10)

The only ones who do not merit a resurrection are those who are incorrigibly wicked (like the Pharisees in Jesus' day. Matthew 23) The place that Jesus assigned those ones to is "gehenna", also called the "lake of fire" or "the second death" (and incorrectly translated "hell") It simply means eternal death, since there is no conscious existence after death, (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10) there is no need to invent places for the dead to go....as if God has nothing better to do than punish people forever. He doesn't need to do that....he simply won't return them to life....he has no need to. They have paid sins wages. The life of the police officer was paid for by the death of his assailant. The sales of justice were balanced. (eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life.)

As for the dead...only God knows who is in 'hades' and who is in 'gehenna'.....but just because someone lives a life of crime doesn't automatically mean that they are not redeemable. Jesus' death means a resurrection for those who warrant a second chance since they have died before the final judgment, which is now fast approaching.....so we need not worry about the dead....we need to worry about the living who are now in a judgment period. When Christ comes to judge the world, those who have not come to Christ, will pay sin's wages.....permanently. There are only "sheep and goats" alive at that time, (Matthew 25:31-34, 41) so we will be consigned to either one camp or the other by a judge who knows us better than we know ourselves. One inherits everlasting life...the other everlasting death.

So that is how I would interpret the scriptures.

 

[cataway]

I have a completely different take on this......firstly, sin and error were inherited from our first parents (Romans 5:12) and God knows that we have sinful tendencies. He gave us laws because of that, but at the same time, no one is permitted to break his laws without penalty.

In the Bible, the highest penalty under the law was death. It says at Romans 6:23..."For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." The gift that Jesus gave us is forgiveness of our sins by dying instead of us. That means that once we have paid sin's wages with our own death, there is no other penalty...according to Romans 6:5..."For the one who has died has been acquitted (pardoned) from his sin."

Since there is no such place as "hell", and not all good people go to heaven (a scenario made up by Christendom) it is clear to me that those who died have not gone anywhere...they are sleeping peacefully in their graves awaiting a call from Jesus to awaken and come out of their graves. (John 5:28-29; John 11:11-14) Those called from the graves are "the righteous and the unrighteous" who are both called from the same place, which means they all went to the same place....'sheol" (Hebrew) or "hades" (Greek). (Ecclesiastes 9:10)

The only ones who do not merit a resurrection are those who are incorrigibly wicked (like the Pharisees in Jesus' day. Matthew 23) The place that Jesus assigned those ones to is "gehenna", also called the "lake of fire" or "the second death" (and incorrectly translated "hell") It simply means eternal death, since there is no conscious existence after death, (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10) there is no need to invent places for the dead to go....as if God has nothing better to do than punish people forever. He doesn't need to do that....he simply won't return them to life....he has no need to. They have paid sins wages. The life of the police officer was paid for by the death of his assailant. The sales of justice were balanced. (eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life.)

As for the dead...only God knows who is in 'hades' and who is in 'gehenna'.....but just because someone lives a life of crime doesn't automatically mean that they are not redeemable. Jesus' death means a resurrection for those who warrant a second chance since they have died before the final judgment, which is now fast approaching.....so we need not worry about the dead....we need to worry about the living who are now in a judgment period. When Christ comes to judge the world, those who have not come to Christ, will pay sin's wages.....permanently. There are only "sheep and goats" alive at that time, (Matthew 25:31-34, 41) so we will be consigned to either one camp or the other by a judge who knows us better than we know ourselves. One inherits everlasting life...the other everlasting death.

So that is how I would interpret the scriptures.

Romans 6:
7 For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.

 

[1213]

...when does god forgive a murderer and when not? would we able to find such specific information in some passage within the bible or not? would a bible expert know more about this?

I think God can forgive instantly when ever He wants. However, forgiveness is not useful, if person is not or doesn’t become righteous. Bible promises eternal life for righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

If person is righteous, he repents/regrets and is sorry, if he has done something wrongly. That shows he has the right understanding and he can then be called righteous. Similarly, as in this:

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18:10-14