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Featured bible says god is immortal

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by life.period, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    It's your conclusion that's not in the Bible.
     
  2. Ben Avraham

    Ben Avraham Well-Known Member

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    So, what you are trying to say is that Jesus used of parables to lie to the people? The process through life to make sure salvation will always be there for you, depends exclusively on you by falling back into the sinful way you used to live before. If you expect to go for salvation only when Jesus returns, forget it! The dead have no need to deal with salvation. What Jesus spoke about salvation was for the living. (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6)

    Regarding the temptations through life, you don't have to make a big deal out of it. When Cain was planning to kill Abel, HaShem appeared to him in a dream and asked him, "Why are you distressed? And why is your face fallen? Surely, if you do right, there is uplift; but if you do not do right, sin couches at the door; its urge is towards you; yet you can be its master. (Genesis 4:6,7) Temptations are subject to our Freewill.
     
  3. Ben Avraham

    Ben Avraham Well-Known Member

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    In that case, Jesus was a liar to say that salvation comes from the Jews! From the Jews, he said, not from one among the Jews, if you read John 4:22. IMHO, Jesus was speaking about the universal salvation and not personal salvation that comes through the obedience of God's Law. And for that kind, you must read Luke 16:29-31 where Jesus said that to achieve salvation we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. It is all in your NT. Nothing from the top of my head.
     
  4. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    Read John 4 again. Salvation is of the Jews. Salvation comes from God and it was given to the Jews first, then to everyone. The Jews are not giving out salvation, that is God's job and now through His son. The Jews were God's chosen people, not for their sake, but for God's. But now, it is given to everyone.

    But the issue I see here from your posts is that you don't believe that Jesus is the messiah. Your more into the OT. There is only one kind of salvation, if you want to make it two or three different kinds, that's up to you.
     
  5. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe in the gobbledygook because it makes more sense.
     
  6. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe your definition is different from Jesus. He said it meant that people don't perish.

    I believe that is either speculation or fantasy.
     
  7. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe this is the null hypothesis. One must show why He would necessarily have to say that in the context.

    I believe that is true. The Bible becomes superfluous to the saved person.


    I believe I see that more as a matter of what Jesus wants for this specific time period. I do appreciate having the burden lifted though. (*** He beaks out into a chorus of Burdens are lifted at Calvary)

    I believe it means Jesus saves me from sin.
     
  8. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    And yet who is this King of Kings mentioned in Rev 19:11-16 ?
     
  9. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    moorea944,

    I don't believe in the Trinity either. But what about the following:

    1. That God was manifest in the flesh?

    2. The Messiah said Destroy this temple (referring to his body) and in 3 days I will raise it up.

    3. Micah 1:3-5 For, behold, YHWH cometh forth out of his place , and will come down, and tread upon the high
    places of the earth
    . ...and what are the high places of Judah? are they not Jerusalem?

    4. Isaiah 9:6 the son to be born would also be the mighty God, and the everlasting Father.

    5. Isaiah 40:3 The voice crying - Prepare ye the way of YHWH, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. This voice turns out to be John the Baptist in the N.T.
    Who did he prepare the way for? Who showed up? This proves, to me anyway, that YHWH appeared in a body.
     
  10. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    1. You are reading translations, - and those translations are often tweaked to Christian ideas.

    2. You are mixing two different religions, - with the newer one having access to the older texts, - which means they could write in things to make Jesus fit the older.

    3. Luckily for us - we can see multiple places where they have made mistakes. Christian have made multiple mistakes with Isaiah, - such as 9:6, and the so called virgin birth - which isn't a virgin birth, and takes place then as a sign for Ahaz, etc.

    " ...So, according to the Jewish interpretation, who is Isaiah 9:6-7 speaking about?

    According to Judaism, the answer is in the names chosen. The name 'Hezekiah' which in Hebrew is 'Chizkiyah' comes from the words 'chazak' and 'Ya.' 'Chazak' means 'strong' or 'mighty' and 'Ya' is the shortened name for Gd used as a suffix. Many might recognize the Ya' in the word, 'halleluyah' which means,'praise Gd.' Judaism believes that Isaiah 9:6-7 refers to Hezekiah, who reigned for almost 30 years. The name Hezekiah, Chizkiyah, is the same name in meaning, as one finds in the verses from Isaiah 9:6-7, a 'Mighty Gd." - What Jews Believe: Prooftext #6: Is. 9:6-7
    *

    Isa 7:7
    Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.

    Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you (AHAZ and ISAIAH) a sign; Behold, a almah shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (not some future Jesus prophecy.) (2 Kings 16:1-5 tells the story of Ahaz's successful battle). Etc.
    *

    Isa 39:3 Then came Isaiah the prophet unto king Hezekiah, and said unto him, What said these men? and from whence came they unto thee? And Hezekiah said, They are come from a far country unto me, even from Babylon.

    Isa 39:8 Then said Hezekiah to Isaiah, Good is the word of YHVH which thou hast spoken. He said moreover, For there shall be peace and truth in my days.

    Isa 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.

    Isa 40:2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of YHVH's hand double for all her sins.

    Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of YHVH, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

    Isaiah 39 and 40 are still talking about Isaiah and the same WAR he is in, - not some future Jesus idea, or John.
    *

    Mic 1:1 The word of YHVH that came to Micah the Morasthite in the days of Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, which he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem.

    Mic 1:3 For, behold, YHVH cometh forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth.

    Mic 1:4 And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place.

    Mic 1:5 For the transgression of Jacob is all this, and for the sins of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of Jacob? is it not Samaria? and what are the high places of Judah? are they not Jerusalem?

    Jesus does NOT do anything like this! This is talking about ONLY YHVH, - in the days of AHAZ, - CONCERNING Samaria and Jerusalem.

    *
     
  11. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Your explanations don't seem quite accurate to me. For instance, it was the word that came in the days of Ahaz, not that it all had to happen in his days.
    And it did concern Samaria and Jerusalem when the Messiah came to Jerusalem. And, It was for the sins of Jacob and the house of Israel - they could obtain forgiveness of sins after he shed his blood. (So I don't believe you can accurately say the Messiah didn't do anything like this. It's just your opinion.)

    You said, Judaism believes Isaiah 9:6-7 refers to Hezekiah, who reigned for almost 30 years. Please explain how Hezekiah would be the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the prince of peace, and how there would be no end to the increase of his government and peace. How would he reign on Davids throne forever? (Please explain these verses as thoroughly as you can.)

    Please tell me according to the explanation you gave, When did YHWH come forth out of his place and tread on the high places of the earth? Who was the voice in the wilderness?

    We all have the right to believe what we think is correct. In the end we will see if we were actually right.

    I was trying to talk to someone I thought did accept the NT as scripture. I realize man has made some errors in the translations. But, just because you don't believe
    something doesn't make it an error. Just because some don't accept the NT, doesn't mean it is not the word of God.

    I happen to believe the Messiah did come, and that it was YHWH manifest in the flesh. FYI - I think Hallelujah means Praise YHWH
     
  12. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely!! God was manifest in Jesus. Also the angels, prophets, etc... Scripture tells us that God worked through Jesus. Read John 17. God made a promise that He would send someone to save us. The Jews couldnt do it, the Gentiles couldnt do it for they all sinned. Angels couldnt do it because they cant be tempted. God sent His son thoughout the world preaching, but God his Father was in him, or working in him.

    Jesus also talks for God. Angels too. They carry the name of God or bear God's name in them.

    The might God or the might El. The power of God. Yes, Jesus was the power of his father because his father gave him everything.

    God manifestation. God working through someone. This is a future prophecy. God does not come down to earth. His angels do that and if he works through someone too, like John, or the apostles or Jesus. We do see God in those people, but not physically.
     
  13. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    You need to read all of Isaiah 7:1-14. It is a war. They are afraid they will lose. YHVH says it won't happen. And he gives Ahaz and Isaiah a sign to prove it.

    Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.

    Isa 7:2 And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind.

    Isa 7:3 Then said YHVH unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field;

    Isa 7:4 And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah.

    Isa 7:5 Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying,

    Isa 7:6 Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal:

    Isa 7:7 Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass. (This is what YHVH tells Isaiah to say to Ahaz.)

    Isa 7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

    Isa 7:9 And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established.

    Isa 7:10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,

    Isa 7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.

    Isa 7:12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.

    Isa 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?

    Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

    Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

    GOT THAT? BEFORE the child in 14 shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good - the two kings they are fighting will be gone.

    Happened THEN - No future Jesus


    *
     
  14. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Again - translations -! King David was told his throne would last forever. Is King David Jesus? Is King David God? You need to study their language and colloquialisms.

    Did you bother to check out the link? That is whom the JEWS say is the person mentioned in THEIR Tanakh.

    Many Tanakh names have their God's name in them.

    What Jews Believe: Prooftext #6: Is. 9:6-7

    Did you miss that it SAYS YHVH???

    Mic 1:1 The word of YHVH that came to Micah the Morasthite in the days of Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, which he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem.

    Mic 1:3 For, behold, YHVH cometh forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth.

    Mic 1:4 And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place.

    We are told it is the Prophet Isaiah. The same one sent to Ahaz in the first place.

    Isa 39:3 Then came Isaiah the prophet unto king Hezekiah, and said unto him, What said these men? and from whence came they unto thee? And Hezekiah said, They are come from a far country unto me, even from Babylon.

    Isa 39:8 Then said Hezekiah to Isaiah, Good is the word of YHVH which thou hast spoken. He said moreover, For there shall be peace and truth in my days.

    Isa 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.

    Isa 40:2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of YHVH's hand double for all her sins.

    *
     
  15. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Very Tricky - You took my comments I was making about the verses you gave in Micah and make it sound like I was talking about Isaiah 7:
    (Hopefully this was accidental)

    My 2nd paragraph was about Isaiah 9:6, but I didn't really comment on Isaiah 7:1-16

    Now I see what you meant where it said - Anything you say will be misquoted and used against you.

    My questions were about Isaiah 9:6,7 and Micah 1:3 which you didn't answer.
     
  16. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    LOLOLOLO!!!!!!

    Baloney! All three texts are discussing the same war with the same people such as Isaiah.

    Apparently you didn't read both replies. My answers were too long for one post.

    Note that your WORDS are before EVERY answer.

    SO! What you said there is just bull!

    *
     
  17. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    So what was your answer to these questions.
     
  18. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Read it a little slower and you will know.

    # 73 and 74

    *
     
  19. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    I apologize - I don't know how it happened, but I didn't even see post 74 until just now.
     
  20. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    I do understand what you are saying here. What I was trying to say before is that you are giving this in response to comments I was making regarding Micah 1:
     
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