Bible Passages About Fetus / Baby

[The Kilted Heathen]

no sorry
8 days after delivery, then the baby is named at the circumcision.

Gotcha, thanks. I was about to say, an 8 day fetus is... literally cells lol

 

[Revoltingest]

I vaguely recall a friend telling me about a Bible
passage regarding how to punish someone for
causing a pregnant woman's miscarriage.
Anyone know it?

 

[dybmh]

I vaguely recall a friend telling me about a Bible
passage regarding how to punish someone for
causing a pregnant woman's miscarriage.
Anyone know it?

Yes Exodus 21:22-25

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes Exodus 21:22-25

Well, supply the quote, bub!

 

[Polymath257]

"So *before* someone was in the womb, he was known. In other words, he was known even before conception."

It takes about 6-12 days for a fertilized egg to travel to the uterus and attach to the uterus.
So maybe its saying he knew them once the egg was fertilized, before it reaches the uterus(womb).

I reads to me like He had a previous plan that included this individual and had planned out his characteristics before he was even conceived.

 

[Polymath257]

It certainly does. Are you trying to say God knew him before conception then forgot and he became a nothing until birth?

No I am saying that God 'knew' him before he even existed--as in knew everything about what this individual would be.

 

[Polymath257]

That a human is valuable at every stage.

Where does it say that? At most it says that we develop from what is in the womb.

 

[Polymath257]

Proof that the fetus was a baby is what I think.

Or that Jesus was special.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes Exodus 21:22-25

Are we talking the pre Rowe v Wade translation or the Post Rowe v Wade translation?

 

[Subduction Zone]

No I am saying that God 'knew' him before he even existed--as in knew everything about what this individual would be.

Also that appears to have been the exception rather than the rule. From the context it looks as if it is explaining why this person was so special.

 

[dybmh]

Well, supply the quote, bub!

Are we talking the pre Rowe v Wade translation or the Post Rowe v Wade translation?

Here's what Judaica Press has:

22 And should men quarrel and hit a pregnant woman, and she miscarries but there is no fatality, he shall surely be punished, when the woman's husband makes demands of him, and he shall give [restitution] according to the judges' [orders].
23 But if there is a fatality, you shall give a life for a life,
24 an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot,
25 a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise.

 

[Revoltingest]

22 And should men quarrel and hit a pregnant woman, and she miscarries but there is no fatality, he shall surely be punished, when the woman's husband makes demands of him, and he shall give [restitution] according to the judges' [orders].

So a miscarriage causes no fatality, eh.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here's what Judaica Press has:

22 And should men quarrel and hit a pregnant woman, and she miscarries but there is no fatality, he shall surely be punished, when the woman's husband makes demands of him, and he shall give [restitution] according to the judges' [orders].
23 But if there is a fatality, you shall give a life for a life,
24 an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot,
25 a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise.

And I agree with that. You might not be aware of this but in the US most Bibles changed their translation sometime after Roe v Wade so that they could claim that the Bible argues against abortion where it merely seems neutral if the death of a fetus or embryo is only a fine.


And here is the reason that I think that the translation that you used is the correct one: At that time an "early birth" would have been a death sentence for almost all babies. Laws are made for the norm and not the exception. In this case the norm would be that the early birth would have died, so to be consistent with the law covering the norm and the exceptions being noted later it would have given the death penalty unless the fetus survived. They have the order backwards for it to be a penalty if the fetus dies.

And it is very hard, at least for me, to find older US translations on line. Luckily for some odd reason Bible Hub has one older translation:

"NASB 1995
“If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide.

NASB 1977
“And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide."

As you can see the difference changes the interpretation entirely. I remembered that verse from my old Bible, though I can't find it right now. Luckily my Housemate collects them and she has a Catholic Bible from the 1960's and even that very anti-abortion group had the word "miscarriage" in their translation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So a miscarriage causes no fatality, eh.

As I just said, in the US that would be the case only if you had an older Bible.

 

[We Never Know]

I vaguely recall a friend telling me about a Bible
passage regarding how to punish someone for
causing a pregnant woman's miscarriage.
Anyone know it?

See post #12

 

[dybmh]

So a miscarriage causes no fatality, eh.

In that case it would always be life for life.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Y’all are thinking about the wrong life. The men are fighting and a pregnant woman (a wife) is hit and has a miscarriage. ** Yes. That means the fetus dies. **. But that’s the end of the harm TO THE WIFE. Then the husband can call for fines.

But, IF THE WIFE is killed, or gets an eye out, or is maimed…. THEN the husband can call for death or maiming of the one who injured or killed his WIFE.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I take this as the baby was born early but survived, so its a fine. If it dies then its a life for a life

Exodus 21:22

New International Version
“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows.

New Living Translation
“Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve.

English Standard Version
“When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine.

Berean Standard Bible
If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows.

King James Bible
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

New King James Version
“If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

New American Standard Bible
“Now if people struggle with each other and strike a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely, but there is no injury, the guilty person shall certainly be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide.

Exodus 21:23

New International Version
But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

New Living Translation
But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life,

English Standard Version
But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life,

Berean Standard Bible
But if a serious injury results, then you must require a life for a life—

King James Bible
And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

New King James Version
But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,

New American Standard Bible
But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,

Exodus 21:22 If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband demands and as the court allows.

It is a mangled translation. Those appeared after Roe v Wade. Before that the translations used to be "miscarriage" instead of "premature birth".

 

[Truthseeker]

So *before* someone was in the womb, he was known. In other words, he was known even before conception.

That doesn't say much about the status of a fetus as a baby.

I hadn't thought of that first clause in that light before.

 

[Truthseeker]

Sort of a special case, don't you think?

I don't know about that, but what if didn't happen that way?