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Featured Bible Passages About Fetus / Baby

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Revoltingest, Dec 7, 2022.

  1. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Let this thread be a place to collect every passage
    anyone can find that could shed light on whether or
    not a fetus is the same as a baby.
     
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  2. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Veteran Member

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    "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

    "For You formed my inward parts;
    You wove me in my mother’s womb.
    I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    Wonderful are Your works,
    And my soul knows it very well.
    My frame was not hidden from You,
    When I was made in secret,
    And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;"


    The Lord said to her,
    “Two nations are in your womb;
    And two peoples will be separated from your body;
    And one people shall be stronger than the other;
    And the older shall serve the younger.”
    When her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.

    "Did not He who made me in the womb make him,
    And the same one fashion us in the womb?"

    "When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. And she cried out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me?"
     
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  3. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    So *before* someone was in the womb, he was known. In other words, he was known even before conception.

    That doesn't say much about the status of a fetus as a baby.

    OK, so the commonplace fact that humans develop in the womb says what about the actual question?

    Clearly an allegory. And, again, it says nothing about the actual moral status of the fetus in the womb.

    And, again, humans are made in the womb. That doesn't say anything about the moral status of the fetus in the womb.

    Sort of a special case, don't you think?
     
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  4. We Never Know

    We Never Know No Slack

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    "So *before* someone was in the womb, he was known. In other words, he was known even before conception."

    It takes about 6-12 days for a fertilized egg to travel to the uterus and attach to the uterus.
    So maybe its saying he knew them once the egg was fertilized, before it reaches the uterus(womb).
     
  5. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Veteran Member

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    It certainly does. Are you trying to say God knew him before conception then forgot and he became a nothing until birth?
     
  6. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Veteran Member

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    That a human is valuable at every stage.
     
  7. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Veteran Member

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    Proof that the fetus was a baby is what I think.
     
  8. Left Coast

    Left Coast The Fabulous
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    Are you trying to say potential human beings who aren't even conceived have the same status as a baby?

    If the answer is no, then this verse can't be used to rationalize believing fetuses are equal to babies either.
     
  9. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    22 “When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine. 23 If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."

    Exodus 21:22-25

    "she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

    29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin."

    Numbers 5:11-31
     
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  10. Left Coast

    Left Coast The Fabulous
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    The traditional Christian belief is that God is omniscient, ie knows everything. In fact there's even Biblical indications that he has middle knowledge, ie knowledge of what could be but isn't.
     
  11. Left Coast

    Left Coast The Fabulous
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    "Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” "

    Romans 9:10-15
     
  12. We Never Know

    We Never Know No Slack

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    I take this as the baby was born early but survived, so its a fine. If it dies then its a life for a life

    Exodus 21:22

    New International Version
    “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows.

    New Living Translation
    “Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve.

    English Standard Version
    “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine.

    Berean Standard Bible
    If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows.

    King James Bible
    If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

    New King James Version

    “If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

    New American Standard Bible
    “Now if people struggle with each other and strike a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely, but there is no injury, the guilty person shall certainly be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide.

    Exodus 21:23

    New International Version
    But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

    New Living Translation
    But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life,

    English Standard Version
    But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life,

    Berean Standard Bible
    But if a serious injury results, then you must require a life for a life—

    King James Bible
    And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

    New King James Version

    But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,

    New American Standard Bible
    But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,

    Exodus 21:22 If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband demands and as the court allows.
     
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  13. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Veteran Member

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    :rolleyes:

    I see you avoiding the question.
     
  14. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Veteran Member

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    Yet You are He who brought me forth from the womb;
    You made me trust when upon my mother’s breasts.
    Upon You I was cast from birth;
    You have been my God from my mother’s womb.
     
  15. The Kilted Heathen

    The Kilted Heathen Crow FreyjasmaðR

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    You're going to want to look more into passages that illustrate when life begins - which off the top of my head is first breath.

    But more importantly, bible passages should not be admissible when it comes to secular law.
     
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  16. Left Coast

    Left Coast The Fabulous
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    Physician, heal thyself. :rolleyes:

    If God knows all things, it is irrelevant to whether or not some potential person is considered to have equal moral status to an actual person.
     
  17. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    Here's my submission: Not the best, but it's something.

    Isaiah 49:1

    1Hearken, you islands, to me, and listen closely, you nations, from afar; the Lord called me from the womb, from the innards of my mother He mentioned my name.
    Fetuses are not named; Jewish tradition is that babies are named after they are deemed viable, for boys it's 8 days after birth. I don't know the rules for girls. Either way, this specific male fetus is similar to a fully developed viable child from the perspective of "the Lord". It's at least 8 days old or equivilent.
     
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  18. The Kilted Heathen

    The Kilted Heathen Crow FreyjasmaðR

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    8 days as in 8 days from conception?
     
  19. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    no :) sorry
    8 days after delivery, then the baby is named at the circumcision.
     
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  20. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    Actually, I need to revoke this one. I just remembered. In the story, God names Isaac before he was conceived. So it doesn't work. Sorry.
     
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