Bhaktivedanta

[Shantanu]

Whatever works for you and we needn't sweat the details if nothing is broken.

One question for my understanding. Do you believe that once we physically die we will no longer have a continuation of our current consciousness (as suggested in Near Death Experiences) prior to moksha still well down the road for most of us? If so, that seems kind of depressing to me and I wouldn't feel much purpose in this life. How do you see this?

By moksha do you mean release from the cycle of birth and deaths into some kind of eternal state?

 

[George-ananda]

By moksha do you mean release from the cycle of birth and deaths into some kind of eternal state?

Mergence in the One/Brahman Consciousness without the illusion of separateness. Or perhaps a better term than 'mergence' is the banishment of the ignorance (Maya) that perceives a separateness. Brahman alone is eternal and we are that.

But the common man is still in ignorance and moksha is well away. He doesn't crave extinguishment before moksha.

 

[Shantanu]

Mergence in the One/Brahman Consciousness without the illusion of separateness. Or perhaps a better term than 'mergence' is the banishment of the ignorance (Maya) that perceives a separateness. Brahman alone is eternal and we are that.

For me I was living in deep depression not being able to make head or tail of this world and my life with its turn of events from glory one day to poverty overnight by some very evil events when God came to my aid to guide me in my actions. I did not study Hindu scriptures to learn about the various theories of existence, so I am not concerned about Brahman Consciousness or the moksha that is attained from realising Brahman as One or That. My life is now complete with knowledge of God as a Personal Guide and I am content with myself so do not look to having an afterlife but to make this life last as long as possible so I can appreciate more of this life with my family together performing our roles as dharma. To me there is no proof that souls leave the body at death and roam about in space acquiring wisdom and then inhabit another body. I must have proof before I accept such things. So for me God is real but Brahman Consciousness means nothing to me. I am only interested in living a normal healthy life surviving in dignity.

 

[George-ananda]

For me I was living in deep depression not being able to make head or tail of this world and my life with its turn of events from glory one day to poverty overnight by some very evil events when God came to my aid to guide me in my actions. I did not study Hindu scriptures to learn about the various theories of existence, so I am not concerned about Brahman Consciousness or the moksha that is attained from realising Brahman as One or That. My life is now complete with knowledge of God as a Personal Guide and I am content with myself so do not look to having an afterlife but to make this life last as long as possible so I can appreciate more of this life with my family together performing our roles as dharma. To me there is no proof that souls leave the body at death and roam about in space acquiring wisdom and then inhabit another body. I must have proof before I accept such things. So for me God is real but Brahman Consciousness means nothing to me. I am only interested in living a normal healthy life surviving in dignity.

OK, we're different in our interests apparently.

For me, without a meaningful afterlife, the striving in this life loses purpose. We're old and decaying so fast. I need to feel the best is ahead when I consider the shortness of our physical lives to feel motivated about it all. I need to feel the wisdom and spiritual qualities I gain are not to be shortly wiped away by death to be motivated to strive for these qualities.

In the end, if our beliefs (be they yours or mine or an atheist-humanist or a whatever) bring us peace and make us more loving then that is the important thing. The full ultimate reality is beyond human comprehension.

 

[Shantanu]

OK, we're different in our interests apparently.

For me, without a meaningful afterlife, the striving in this life loses purpose. We're old and decaying so fast. I need to feel the best is ahead when I consider the shortness of our physical lives to feel motivated about it all. I need to feel the wisdom and spiritual qualities I gain are not to be shortly wiped away by death to be motivated to strive for these qualities.

In the end, if our beliefs (be they yours or mine or an atheist-humanist or a whatever) bring us peace and make us more loving then that is the important thing. The full ultimate reality is beyond human comprehension.

I fully understand what you are saying and your reasons that you have given for what you are striving for. Perhaps once my material troubles are over I may feel the need to seek a different purpose to the rest of my life. For example I may stop surrendering to God if there is nothing further to be gained from the association and just reflect on my previous experiences. For I do not know whether God will stay with me till the end of my life.

For now my duties and responsibilities to myself and my family and the struggle to survive with dignity take priority over personal spiritual upliftment. If there is something more out there that I become aware of and I do not rule it out I will change my outlook. For I do not know whether bhaktivedanta too is a phase that might lead to something else in the future. Moksha perhaps, that is total liberation, including liberation from God. Let me see.

I agree that we must be tolerant of other people's spiritual needs and beliefs whilst adhering to our own because that is humanity. That is why I call myself a Hindu.