Between Atheism and mysticism?

[Jollybear]

That is because you are not perceiving precisely what is being told to you. You are rejecting a fundamental truth that truth is simultaneously objective in theory but always subjective in practice.

I think id "percieve" precisely if they answer my questions.

 

[Firemorphic]

That is because you are not perceiving precisely what is being told to you. You are rejecting a fundamental truth that truth is simultaneously objective in theory but always subjective in practice.

The subjective and the objective are like a loving couple in coitus.

 

[Willamena]

That is because you are not perceiving precisely what is being told to you. You are rejecting a fundamental truth that truth is simultaneously objective in theory but always subjective in practice.

Well, it's objective in practice too.

Everything can be seen both objectively or subjectively, make your choice.

 

[Willamena]

I think id "percieve" precisely if they answer my questions.

I think I'd prefer it if you didn't transpose the id with I'd.

 

[sealchan]

Well, it's objective in practice too.

Everything can be seen both objectively or subjectively, make your choice.

I dont think we have as much choice in the matter as you might think.

 

[Willamena]

I dont think we have as much choice in the matter as you might think.

I've no doubt that you do.

 

[stvdv]

This is not my definition BTW, rather the Jewish one.

God is an initial force that has no relevance to the question of time.
God is not something that can be described as a character, yet we can only use human characteristics to try and describe some of its affect on us.
God is the motivating force behind all the movement we experience in our existence.

The Jewish religion doesn't really define God. God is stated as an Undefined.
Instead, throughout the texts (including the bible), there are only descriptions of the affects of God and the way it operates.

To me, the evidence is very clear.
There is a motivating force. I can feel it, the entire universe (physical) is governed by it.
We know this force was one that split into 4 known forces (there might be more). these forces are what they are, a force.
There is something that causes these forces to operate. we know these forces are initial (at least in the POV of humans) as we suspect they were the initial force that caused our universe to emerge from it singular state.
Even if this theory is not correct, we know for a fact that some force had to act on the energy to make the entire process start. this is what we might refer to as an initial force.
Based on the Jewish religion, BTW, this force is broken into several forces all acting as one. the sum of these forces is what you might call Elohim. (Other names represent different things regarding God)

God cannot be described. it is not a physical nor spiritual thing. it is a sum of both.
Imagine an Atom... When we say the structure of an Atom, we don'y really describe the entire atom, rather the physical parts of it.
We can say an Atom is made of Neurons, protons and electrons as an example. but an Atom is also made of energy, and forces, and many factors that we cant really describe.
You can think of God in a similar manner, we cannot really describe it as it includes many parts we cannot really understand.

Everything in our universe has motion. A rock, although seems still, is powered by energy and is in constant motion. this has been mentioned thousands of years ago by both philosophers and religions.
This movement, cannot be stopped. we know that completely stopping this motion cannot be achieved. although recent studies claim there is maybe a possibility to "freeze" an atom, it is not really a 0 speed. rather something very very close to it.
The state of no motion is called absolute zero.

This motion, is motivated by something. it will be ignorant to think otherwise. you might think that this can be a closed system (which we already theorized), yet the motion it self is always happening. so there is a motion that is constant and is all over our existence.
This is something you might think of when thinking about God.

These three examples are a very small part of countless of things that are described in details in the Jewish texts. all BTW, are mentioned in the bible (OT).

Putting that aside, once you study how to look for God, you will see it. it is not a question of IF, rather HOW.
It took me a long time to understand why i really was "blind". not because i didn't see Gods effects , rather i didn't understand when i saw it.

You probably see it on a daily basis, yet we are all too busy living our lives that we miss it.

There is a very interesting verse in the OT.

It says that if you will follow Gods instructions you will KNOW God. the word KNOW in Hebrew is "לדעת".
It derives from the word "דעת". which means knowing when being translated loosely, yet this is not what it really means. In Hebrew the word "דעת" means "connection".

The tree of knowledge for example, is not really "tree of knowing good and bad". this is a wrong translation, it is actually the tree of connecting to good and bad.

When I red these words, i thought this is really weird. why use the word KNOW? but today i understand it. I actually KNOW God. (not like knowing a friend, rather Know it exists and its impact on our lives).

And again, the word in Hebrew is actually be connected to God.

In every action i make today, i can sense and understand its impact on my life once i understand what it means in the "God's POV".

Its very complex to explain, but the fact is it simply works. i cannot argue against it, and believe me, i tried.
I tried finding excuses for everything, but the fact is, it simply works.

I know it sounds weird, but i can elaborate about it more if you wish.

Thanks a lot for taking all the time to explain in such detail my question. I appreciate that a lot.

PERFECT, how you described this. I knew you follow Jewish belief but had no clue Jews had "God" so well described, hence my surprise that you, as a former Atheist, made such a bold statement "there is very clear evidence of God". Hence my question to you.

How you described it, is pretty much the picture that I got from listening to my Master.

I am curious if other religious/spiritual people/atheists agree with this. Totally makes sense to me, but of course I am biased by listening to my Master for 30 years, to think this way. If all agree this would be smart to put on RF, so we don't need to debate about God anymore

 

[Jumi]

I'd say atheism and mysticism need not conflict with each other. Much of the time it is up to interpretations. One of the more famous popular atheists, Sam Harris, identifies as a mystic. Though there are others... oh and happy birthday!

 

[Segev Moran]

Thanks a lot for taking all the time to explain in such detail my question. I appreciate that a lot.

Pleasure And thanks

PERFECT, how you described this.

I knew you follow Jewish belief but had no clue Jews had "God" so well described, hence my surprise that you, as a former Atheist, made such a bold statement "there is very clear evidence of God". Hence my question to you.

Actually what i described is only the introduction of the introduction of the Jewish description of God. There is tons of information about so many aspects of it that it is almost impossible to explain it without writing a whole book on the subject.

How you described it, is pretty much the picture that I got from listening to my Master.

Cool

I am curious if other religious/spiritual people/atheists agree with this.

I know for a fact many others agree with with this. not many atheists though.

Totally makes sense to me, but of course I am biased by listening to my Master for 30 years, to think this way. If all agree this would be smart to put on RF, so we don't need to debate about God anymore

Lol.
Atheists are having (as did i) hard time accepting such statements. I think most of the problem is that when people hear someone talk about God they have this childish vision of something they encountered in books or movies.
The truth is that the subject of God is a very deep and complex issue. i study the Jewish beliefs for several years now and i still feel like an ignorant when i see the amount of knowledge it holds.

The atheist POV, especially for skeptics (I am a skeptic, btw) is usually very logical. it is hard for them to understand or accept things that theist will usually be more easily open to.
This, many times, causes a ridicule reactions when the subject is even mentioned.

I wish people will take the time to really study and learn before denying things.

 

[stvdv]

The atheist POV, especially for skeptics (I am a skeptic, btw) is usually very logical. it is hard for them to understand or accept things that theist will usually be more easily open to. This, many times, causes a ridicule reactions when the subject is even mentioned.
I wish people will take the time to really study and learn before denying things.

I do understand that Atheists have troubles believing things IF they never had an experience. Luckily I was granted plenty of experiences.
And probably it has to do with interest. I am just interested and open to the spiritual life.
If you are not interested then maybe it's natural "not to get experiences".
Whatever you give energy grows. Same in spiritual life.
Einstein even said this with "E=m.c.c"