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Featured Between Atheism and mysticism?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    They are 2 different belief systems or one is a lack of belief. I bring it up because to be honest I agree a lot usually 100 percent with Atheists who challenge the belief in God, but i am not an Atheist.

    The thing is, my God of my own understanding is my own inner Godself, part of me that is super human and also a God that is a part of nature,and I do believe a power in nature that is super human.

    Do if i pray to God, its my own higher self or Nature based.

    I also believe in spirits, ghosts and mystical experiences, people who feel led to tell me something I need to know, my feet being on the right path this kind of thing,I also believe in psychic powers.So mystical experiences and dreams yes.

    There is a reason why I agree with Atheists a lot here.
    Its because I do not believe there is any proof that there is a God, so I will not argue that with Atheists. There is no hell, so no need to change Atheists.

    My proof of God is personal experiences with God, its private to me, so I believe. But there's no proof in this world that a God exists so. Just to clear up any misunderstanding of where I stand, I will stand on the side of Atheists in these arguments, however I am not an atheist.

    I was asked if i still believe in the Holy Spirit up here not long ago, yes I still feel a God spirit that can take me over such as the Holy spirit at times and be moved by the spirit.But it does not come from a Christian Gidhead like it use to in church.My mystical experiences with dreams are part of that.
     
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  2. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    If you have experiences with God and believe in God, why would you side with atheists? I dont understand.
     
  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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    I know this question isn't directed at me, but I'd like a shot at answering.

    Because mystics tend to understand that their experiences are personal and intended for them. They're not intended to be proselytized or to used to steer others away from whatever path they choose.
     
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  4. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Yes a big part of the truth here. I also do not believe there is proof that there is a God, so while I do believe in a higher power, I have no proof. I also agree with evolution and not creationism.
     
  5. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    I get that, however, i would give atheists no footing at all. They already have no leg to stand on in my view.

    They are like hijackers of plains who dont know how to drive it.

    They highjack the word "science" and "intellectualism" for themselves, but they cant drive the thing.

    Sometimes the mystic has a message to give too. A message of truth and accountability.
     
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  6. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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    Based on the rest of your post, I beg to differ.
     
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  7. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    What i meant by "i get that" is atheists obviously have there own right to choose.

    A right to choose, dont mean the choice is right.

    I also think this is a bigger deal then the world thinks as well. Atheism and naturalism is holding science back.

    If science wer not held back, we would probably see advancements that are seen in science fiction movies.
     
    #7 Jollybear, Jan 11, 2019
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  8. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Not addressed at me, but Sax tried, so I guess I might as well..

    I side with the folks that are giving the most reasonable arguments. I'm not an atheist, obviously, but when looking in on a debate between atheists and a particular type of theist, I often see the atheist making far more sense. I find it less common in atheism to be stuck in a dogmatic inflexible 'I'm right and you're wrong' dualistic belief system.

    And I am atheist to certain concepts of God, like the puppeteer one. Of the 3 general common paradigms, atheism, dharmic, and Abrahamic, i feel the odd man out is Abrahamic. There is more in common between atheist and dhamic than Abrahamic and dharmic.
     
    #8 Vinayaka, Jan 11, 2019
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  9. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    I dont think atheists make reasonable arguments. And i do see them having dogmatism.

    What God do you believe in by the way?
     
  10. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    In my version of Hinduism, Siva is God.

    I see reasoned arguments on both sides of the atheist-theist debate. I also see unreasonable arguments on both sides. The arguments that are based on faith, not logic, but claimed to be logic, are unreasonable, in my view. I see no proof of God, period, that would apply to everyone. For me personally, my belief is personal, based on my experiences, not books, not someone else's experience.
     
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  11. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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    Who are you to decide what is right and what is wrong for another?
     
  12. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    Define Siva?

    What arguments do you think are reasonable on the atheist side?

    Also....for the theist side too?

    Do you see evidence for God? I mean the weight of the evidence has to tip more somewhere, doesent it?

    Ok, whats your experiences? And do those experiences PROVE it for you?
     
  13. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    Ill answer that with a question: is truth relative or objective? Is right and wrong relative or objective?

    I think there objective.

    Who i am dont matter either, reality does.
     
  14. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Siva isn't definable. It's beyond definition. He is knowable, but not via words, or the intellect, only via mysticism.
    I like that atheist say books mean nothing, aren't proof.
    For Abrahamic theist, most of it seems unreasonable to me. But that doesn't mean it's unreasonable to them, obviously. Nor should it be. Arguments that bothers me the most on both sides are sweeping generalisation, like the idea that atheist have no morals, or that one needs God in order to be moral.

    Yes, I've seen evidence for god, but like I said before
    it's personal. I won't share personal experiences. No point.

    I generally wouldn't engage in this type of discussion at all. Maybe I'm in a funny mood tonight.
     
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  15. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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    Just because you perceive your reality as you do doesn't mean anyone else does or is required to.
     
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  16. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    Why wont you share?
     
  17. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    Well of course they dont have to accept it. Thats there right. Reality will remain what it is without there acceptence.

    Im just saying reality is bigger then atheism and they hold back science, not advance it.

    The human races full potential would bloom greater with the acceptence of the full spectrum of reality.

    But again, everyone has a choice, obviously.
     
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  18. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Comes off as bragging.
    Comes off as proselytizing.
    Too miraculous for anyone to believe.
    Nobody else's business.
    Between me and God.
    Past experiences indicate person who asks is looking to ridicule.
    The Hindu way not to share.
    It diminishes the experience to tell everyone.
    Not good for the spiritual ego.
    Recommended to not share by most Hindu teachers.
    Silence is golden.


    You want more reasons than that?
     
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  19. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    Doesent that depend on motive?

    When people debate or discuss different views, are they not all directly or indirectly trying to persuade others of there view?

    Not for me it wont be. Plus, doesnt that judge the person how they will react to your experiences? How do you know they wont believe it? Sharing can make them learn something too.

    Alright, thats your choice.

    Are all spiritual experiences between the person and God? How do you know that? How do you know God does not want these things shared? How else can people learn and even study them if not shared?

    Im not lookin to redicule. Granted, some people will, not everyone will.

    The experience i dont think is deminished. The experience was still there. Words may not do it justice, but, sharing i dont believe is wrong. However, its your choice not to share.

    I think that also depends on intent or motive.

    Yes, more reasons.
     
    #19 Jollybear, Jan 11, 2019
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  20. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Hindus (yes, I'm generalising, there are exceptions) are definitely not trying to persuade others of our view. We're quite content that this planet has great diversity. it is possible to hold a larger perspective that there are many views, each suited to the needs of a particular mindset. It makes for less discussion along these lines. I could care less if people agree with me. In fact, you're just as likely to be told to stick with your own faith than not.

    Mystically, according to mystic tradition, the experience absolutely is diminished when you speak of it. That's why when somebody says, 'I'm enlightened" almost everyone knows they're not. If they were, it would be nigh impossible to say that. That said, I have shared certain things with close friends, Boss, or my Gurus. It is okay to share things with the Guru, as they would have already experienced the same thing. But it's not important to them either, more just chit chat, unless it's of a negative nature, and they can help.

    Very different paradigms.

    Which Christian denomination do you follow?
     
    #20 Vinayaka, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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