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Best and Worst religions? On what basis is it determined or such things dont exist?

Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
The definition of religion varies from people to people. Then there's the adjoining realm of ideas between theism and atheism called spirituality. Then there's philosophical belief systems and atheistic belief systems with morality.
So, how does one judge a religion as good or bad?
Does it include atheistic systems like Jainism and atheistic Hinduism? Philosophies like Buddhism and Taoism?


Is there a worst and best religion yet? And why?
 

Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
The worst problem I reckon is that something is claimed to be a religion, but then disavows all gods or God.
Religion is defined as belief in god or Gods by the dictionary.
A semantic issue, yes, but if the meaning of words is illogical, then there is no basis for a rational debate at all.
 

Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
The worst problem I reckon is that something is claimed to be a religion, but then disavows all gods or God.
Religion is defined as belief in god or Gods by the dictionary.
A semantic issue, yes, but if the meaning of words is illogical, then there is no basis for a rational debate at all.


That's also an issue cuz many religions of Hinduism see God as this universe itself like the new though movement and also there are many atheistic Hindu sects as well. :p
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The definition of religion varies from people to people. Then there's the adjoining realm of ideas between theism and atheism called spirituality. Then there's philosophical belief systems and atheistic belief systems with morality.
So, how does one judge a religion as good or bad?

By its effects. In a nutshell, a religion that promotes moral courage, personal responsibility, harmony and virtue is good.

Religions that teach to seek security by taking refuge in superstition and hubris... are not as good.


Does it include atheistic systems like Jainism and atheistic Hinduism? Philosophies like Buddhism and Taoism?
Sure. I would never deny acknowledgement of those as religions.


Is there a worst and best religion yet? And why?

It will vary according to circunstances. Mostly, on how well the downsides are compensated for by the individual and his social environment.

And it may be difficult to decide which between two very different religions is better than the other, even for a single person.

Still, sure, it is very much possible to compare, contrast, and favor certain religions over others on fairly objective grounds.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The worst problem I reckon is that something is claimed to be a religion, but then disavows all gods or God.
Religion is defined as belief in god or Gods by the dictionary.
A semantic issue, yes, but if the meaning of words is illogical, then there is no basis for a rational debate at all.
That might perhaps be accurate, if God were a well-defined concept with clear importance to religion.

But if I have to call the worship of greed that the UCKG teaches a "religion"; the irreflective subservience to the Qur'an and the Bible also a "religion"; the pathetic worship of fear and spirits and hubris of Kardecist Spiritism also a "religion"... then frankly, the word should be begging on its knees for Secular Humanism to lend it some meaning and prestige, let alone Buddhism, Taoism and Jainism.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The definition of religion varies from people to people. Then there's the adjoining realm of ideas between theism and atheism called spirituality. Then there's philosophical belief systems and atheistic belief systems with morality.
So, how does one judge a religion as good or bad?
Does it include atheistic systems like Jainism and atheistic Hinduism? Philosophies like Buddhism and Taoism?


Is there a worst and best religion yet? And why?

I define religion as a set of practices, rituals, ceremonies, and ways of worship. It doesnt need fo be to a god or gods.

I find religion is only worse when people take advantage of its teachings to take the lives and devalue others as human beings, their morals, and disregarding their beliefs.

Religlion in and of itself isnt good or bad.

I have a pet peeve with Christianity ane Islam given its history. The religion is good, but people take advantage and use "god" to over power others. Religious politics.

Eastern religions had their bouts. None seemed to affect the world than christianity has done and Muslims are doing in some areas of the world.

Religions are good. Religious politics are not
 

Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
I define religion as a set of practices, rituals, ceremonies, and ways of worship. It doesnt need fo be to a god or gods.

I find religion is only worse when people take advantage of its teachings to take the lives and devalue others as human beings, their morals, and disregarding their beliefs.

Religlion in and of itself isnt good or bad.

I have a pet peeve with Christianity ane Islam given its history. The religion is good, but people take advantage and use "god" to over power others. Religious politics.

Eastern religions had their bouts. None seemed to affect the world than christianity has done and Muslims are doing in some areas of the world.

Religions are good. Religious politics are not


Compare the Old testament, Quran and Hadith with buddhist, Jain, Taoist and texts of Confucius.
The former there calls for death of other faiths, while the latter 4 don't seem to care much or have time to call for violence.
Comparing Jainism with Islam and Christianity in itself is the most redundant comparison.
Hinduism is divided on both good and bad.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
I would say that the best religion, objectively speaking, in my opinion is Jainism - the central tenets of which are absolute non-violence (ahimsa), meaning that Jains make sure never to step on an insect for fear of harming a sentient creature and "non-one-sidedness" (Anekantavada), meaning that Jains believe reality to be perceived differently from diverse points of view, and that no single point of view is the complete truth, yet taken together they comprise the complete truth.

If everyone on planet earth lived by these two teachings, we would live in a near utopia.

If I were not a Catholic, I would seriously be inclined to Jainism - although, I must say, there is a sexist (misogynistic) denomination of this religion which denies that one of the Tirthankaras (enlightened teachers of humanity) was female but thankfully the other sect is very egalitarian and proto-feminist.
 
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Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
I would say that the best religion, objectively speaking, in my opinion is Jainism - the central tenets of which are absolute non-violence (ahimsa), meaning that Jains make sure never to step on an insect for fear of harming a sentient creature and "non-one-sidedness" (Anekantavada), meaning that Jains believe reality to be. perceived differently from diverse points of view, and that no single point of view is the complete truth, yet taken together they comprise the complete truth.

If everyone on planet earth lived by these two teachings, we would live in a near utopia.

If I were not a Catholic, I would seriously be inclined to Jainism - although, I must say, there is a sexist (misogynistic) denomination of this religion which denies that one of the Tirthankaras (enlightened teachers of humanity) was female but thankfully the other sect is very egalitarian and proto-feminist.


Yes, but still the most pacifist one yet along with Buddhism.
Guess the extreme non violence towards microbes was too much for me and it normally suppresses both homosexuality and heterosexuality in general.
That's why I picked Bhagavad Gita+Zen Buddhism
:)
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Compare the Old testament, Quran and Hadith with buddhist, Jain, Taoist and texts of Confucius.
The former there calls for death of other faiths, while the latter 4 don't seem to care much or have time to call for violence.
Comparing Jainism with Islam and Christianity in itself is the most redundant comparison.
Hinduism is divided on both good and bad.

Judaism is not a proselytising religion (unlike Christianity and Islam). I have never met a Jew in my life who called for "deaths of other faiths" in terms of advocating forced conversion. o_O

In terms of Christianity, the original message of Jesus did not call for "death for those of other faiths" either. Even in later centuries, when organised Christianity turned from being a persecuted, minority sect into the state religion - violent Christians still paid lip service to freedom of conscience, even when they broke it in practice. Some examples from medieval papal documents:


"...[Non-Christians] ought to suffer no prejudice. We, out of the meekness of Christian piety, and in keeping in the footprints of Our predecessors of happy memory, the Roman Pontiffs Calixtus, Eugene, Alexander, Clement, admit their petition, and We grant them the buckler of Our protection. For We make the law that no Christian compel them, unwilling or refusing, by violence to come to baptism. But, if any one of them should spontaneously, and for the sake of the faith, fly to the Christians, once his choice has become evident, let him be made a Christian without any calumny. Indeed, he is not considered to possess the true faith of Christianity who is not recognized to have come to Christian baptism, not spontaneously, but unwillingly. Too, no Christian ought to presume...to injure their persons, or with violence to take their property, or to change the good customs which they have had until now in whatever region they inhabit. Besides, in the celebration of their own festivities, no one ought disturb them in any way, with clubs or stones, nor ought any one try to require from them or to extort from them services they do not owe, except for those they have been accustomed from times past to perform. ...We decree... that no one ought to dare mutilate or diminish a Jewish cemetery, nor, in order to get money, to exhume bodies once they have been buried. If anyone, however, shall attempt, the tenor of this degree once known, to go against it...let him be punished by the vengeance of excommunication, unless he correct his presumption by making equivalent satisfaction..."

- Pope Alexander III (1159-1181), Decree on the Jews


"...We decree that no Christian shall use violence to compel the Jews to accept baptism. But if a Jew, of his own accord, because of a change in his faith, shall have taken refuge with Christians, after his wish has been made known, he may be made a Christian without any opposition. For anyone who has not of his own will sought Christian baptism cannot have the true Christian faith. No Christian shall do the Jews any personal injury, except in executing the judgments of a judge, or deprive them of their possessions, or change the rights and privileges which they have been accustomed to have. During the celebration of their festivals, no one shall disturb them by beating them with clubs or by throwing stones at them. No one shall compel them to render any services except those which they have been accustomed to render. And to prevent the baseness and avarice of wicked men we forbid anyone to deface or damage their cemeteries or to extort money from them by threatening to exhume the bodies of their dead..."

- Pope Innocent III Letter on the Jews (1199 CE), From: Oliver J. Thatcher, and Edgar Holmes McNeal, eds., A Source Book for Medieval History, (New York: Scribners, 1905), 212-213.

Another example would be the strong line that the papacy undertook against the Spanish colonizers of the New World in their enslavement of native Americans (on the basis that they were devoid of souls and lacked faith in the Christian religion):


http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Paul03/p3subli.htm


"...To all faithful Christians to whom this writing may come, health in Christ our Lord and the apostolic benediction...

The enemy of the human race, who opposes all good deeds in order to bring men to destruction, beholding and envying this, invented a means never before heard of, by which he might hinder the preaching of God's word of Salvation to the people: he inspired his satellites who, to please him, have not hesitated to publish abroad that the Indians of the West and the South, and other people of whom We have recent knowledge should be treated as dumb brutes created for our service...

We, who, though unworthy, exercise on earth the power of our Lord and seek with all our might to bring those sheep of His flock who are outside into the fold committed to our charge, consider, however, that the Indians are truly men...Desiring to provide ample remedy for these evils, We define and declare by these Our letters, or by any translation thereof signed by any notary public and sealed with the seal of any ecclesiastical dignitary, to which the same credit shall be given as to the originals, that, notwithstanding whatever may have been or may be said to the contrary, the said Indians and all other people who may later be discovered by Christians, are by no means to be deprived of their liberty or the possession of their property, even though they be outside the faith of Jesus Christ; and that they may and should, freely and legitimately, enjoy their liberty and the possession of their property; nor should they be in any way enslaved; should the contrary happen, it shall be null and have no effect.

By virtue of Our apostolic authority We define and declare by these present letters..."

- Pope Paul III, Sublimus Dei, May 29, 1537


In 1695, the Vatican likewise censured missionaries that they were not to destroy or undermine the customs, cultural traits and heritage of the new peoples they encountered:


"...Do not act with zeal, do not put forward any arguments to convince these peoples to change their rites, their customs or their usages, except if they are evidently contrary to...morality. What would be more absurd than to bring France, Spain, Italy or any other European country to the Chinese? Do not bring to them our countries, but instead bring to them the Faith, a Faith that does not reject or hurt the rites, nor the usages of any people, provided that these are not distasteful, but that instead keeps and protects them..."

—Extract from the 1659 Instructions, given to Mgr François Pallu and Mgr Lambert de la Motte of the Paris Foreign Missions Society by the Sacred Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith


For each of these policies, however, there are times when popes did enact legislation that undermined Judaism or other non-Christian religions. Yet the basic policy thus enunciated was one that accepted, as a basic doctrinal principle, that no one could be coerced into baptism against his or her will. This is something that the Church still fiercely believes, while admitting historic deviations from it:


"...10. It is one of the major tenets of Catholic doctrine that man's response to God in faith must be free: no one therefore is to be forced to embrace the Christian faith against his own will.(8) This doctrine is contained in the word of God and it was constantly proclaimed by the Fathers of the Church.(7) The act of faith is of its very nature a free act....12. In faithfulness therefore to the truth of the Gospel, the Church is following the way of Christ and the apostles when she recognizes and gives support to the principle of religious freedom as befitting the dignity of man and as being in accord with divine revelation. Throughout the ages the Church has kept safe and handed on the doctrine received from the Master and from the apostles. In the life of the People of God, as it has made its pilgrim way through the vicissitudes of human history, there has at times appeared a way of acting that was hardly in accord with the spirit of the Gospel or even opposed to it. Nevertheless, the doctrine of the Church that no one is to be coerced into faith has always stood firm..."

- Dignitatis Humanae (Declaration on Religious Freedom), Second Vatican Council, 1965

You (and a previous poster even more so) are being too judgemental of the Abrahamic religions IMHO, sadly not an uncommon occurrence.
 
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Aiviu

Active Member
The definition of religion varies from people to people. Then there's the adjoining realm of ideas between theism and atheism called spirituality. Then there's philosophical belief systems and atheistic belief systems with morality.
So, how does one judge a religion as good or bad?
Does it include atheistic systems like Jainism and atheistic Hinduism? Philosophies like Buddhism and Taoism?
Is there a worst and best religion yet? And why?

There isn't. Why not simply understand we have different approaches to what we want to reach? A possible critic point could be that a religion itself is predetermining the persons life subconsciously. But the outcome is the same. I also would yelling out loud my love and insist that my religion is one about peace and remembering but i must not force others. Its contray. I only can force myself to understand what others believe. But never place my understanding higher as theirs and vice versa. Its just different.

If i dont welcome others understanding or religion i would under-perform in the sense of understanding which is quit the essence of each religion. My acceptance comes when i realize it in myself.
I dont promote religions. Its an understanding thing.

To answer your question

So, how does one judge a religion as good or bad?
Is there a worst and best religion yet? And why?
1. Those who havnt understood their own religion but speaking to loud in a rebellious age.
2. See 1. See 1.

Religions content are vary so they are uncompareable. There is no best. There is only one i may could not have been understood.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Compare the Old testament, Quran and Hadith with buddhist, Jain, Taoist and texts of Confucius.
The former there calls for death of other faiths, while the latter 4 don't seem to care much or have time to call for violence.
Comparing Jainism with Islam and Christianity in itself is the most redundant comparison.
Hinduism is divided on both good and bad.

Christianity is about old ans new testament. The authority and role god plays is not seen as murder. Christianity sees it as the righteous decision of god at that time for those particular people. Today, christians follow the new testament. They say the old testament god forgives his people from all the sins they commit by rather than taking out on them, he takes it upon himself.

That is the christian faith. It isnt bad in and of itself.

Id as a Jew how to interpret how they see god of the OT. I dont care for what "I read" what god has done but only a practitioner would know the context behind it.

I wouldnt put down something I never experienced nor practiced. I mean, a lot of people are Star Trekies. Kirk killed a lot of people based on his authoritative decisions. Should I take it i to account Star Trek is immorally bad or should I see how believers or trekies view the shows and how it affects them and in turn may affect society ifbthey decide to do what captain kirk does?

Do you mean to say no one took any eastern religions to their advange over other people?

The religion is good. Religion politics is not.
 

Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
Judaism is not a proselytising religion (unlike Christianity and Islam). I have never met a Jew in my life who called for "deaths of other faiths" in terms of advocating forced conversion. o_O

In terms of Christianity, the original message of Jesus did not call for "death for those of other faiths" either. Even in later centuries, when organised Christianity turned from being a persecuted, minority sect into the state religion - violent Christians still paid lip service to freedom of conscience, even when they broke it in practice. Some examples from medieval papal documents:


"...[Non-Christians] ought to suffer no prejudice. We, out of the meekness of Christian piety, and in keeping in the footprints of Our predecessors of happy memory, the Roman Pontiffs Calixtus, Eugene, Alexander, Clement, admit their petition, and We grant them the buckler of Our protection. For We make the law that no Christian compel them, unwilling or refusing, by violence to come to baptism. But, if any one of them should spontaneously, and for the sake of the faith, fly to the Christians, once his choice has become evident, let him be made a Christian without any calumny. Indeed, he is not considered to possess the true faith of Christianity who is not recognized to have come to Christian baptism, not spontaneously, but unwillingly. Too, no Christian ought to presume...to injure their persons, or with violence to take their property, or to change the good customs which they have had until now in whatever region they inhabit. Besides, in the celebration of their own festivities, no one ought disturb them in any way, with clubs or stones, nor ought any one try to require from them or to extort from them services they do not owe, except for those they have been accustomed from times past to perform. ...We decree... that no one ought to dare mutilate or diminish a Jewish cemetery, nor, in order to get money, to exhume bodies once they have been buried. If anyone, however, shall attempt, the tenor of this degree once known, to go against it...let him be punished by the vengeance of excommunication, unless he correct his presumption by making equivalent satisfaction..."

- Pope Alexander III (1159-1181), Decree on the Jews


"...We decree that no Christian shall use violence to compel the Jews to accept baptism. But if a Jew, of his own accord, because of a change in his faith, shall have taken refuge with Christians, after his wish has been made known, he may be made a Christian without any opposition. For anyone who has not of his own will sought Christian baptism cannot have the true Christian faith. No Christian shall do the Jews any personal injury, except in executing the judgments of a judge, or deprive them of their possessions, or change the rights and privileges which they have been accustomed to have. During the celebration of their festivals, no one shall disturb them by beating them with clubs or by throwing stones at them. No one shall compel them to render any services except those which they have been accustomed to render. And to prevent the baseness and avarice of wicked men we forbid anyone to deface or damage their cemeteries or to extort money from them by threatening to exhume the bodies of their dead..."

- Pope Innocent III Letter on the Jews (1199 CE), From: Oliver J. Thatcher, and Edgar Holmes McNeal, eds., A Source Book for Medieval History, (New York: Scribners, 1905), 212-213.

Another example would be the strong line that the papacy undertook against the Spanish colonizers of the New World in their enslavement of native Americans (on the basis that they were devoid of souls and lacked faith in the Christian religion):


http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Paul03/p3subli.htm


"...To all faithful Christians to whom this writing may come, health in Christ our Lord and the apostolic benediction...

The enemy of the human race, who opposes all good deeds in order to bring men to destruction, beholding and envying this, invented a means never before heard of, by which he might hinder the preaching of God's word of Salvation to the people: he inspired his satellites who, to please him, have not hesitated to publish abroad that the Indians of the West and the South, and other people of whom We have recent knowledge should be treated as dumb brutes created for our service...

We, who, though unworthy, exercise on earth the power of our Lord and seek with all our might to bring those sheep of His flock who are outside into the fold committed to our charge, consider, however, that the Indians are truly men...Desiring to provide ample remedy for these evils, We define and declare by these Our letters, or by any translation thereof signed by any notary public and sealed with the seal of any ecclesiastical dignitary, to which the same credit shall be given as to the originals, that, notwithstanding whatever may have been or may be said to the contrary, the said Indians and all other people who may later be discovered by Christians, are by no means to be deprived of their liberty or the possession of their property, even though they be outside the faith of Jesus Christ; and that they may and should, freely and legitimately, enjoy their liberty and the possession of their property; nor should they be in any way enslaved; should the contrary happen, it shall be null and have no effect.

By virtue of Our apostolic authority We define and declare by these present letters..."

- Pope Paul III, Sublimus Dei, May 29, 1537


In 1695, the Vatican likewise censured missionaries that they were not to destroy or undermine the customs, cultural traits and heritage of the new peoples they encountered:


"...Do not act with zeal, do not put forward any arguments to convince these peoples to change their rites, their customs or their usages, except if they are evidently contrary to...morality. What would be more absurd than to bring France, Spain, Italy or any other European country to the Chinese? Do not bring to them our countries, but instead bring to them the Faith, a Faith that does not reject or hurt the rites, nor the usages of any people, provided that these are not distasteful, but that instead keeps and protects them..."

—Extract from the 1659 Instructions, given to Mgr François Pallu and Mgr Lambert de la Motte of the Paris Foreign Missions Society by the Sacred Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith


For each of these policies, however, there are times when popes did enact legislation that undermined Judaism or other non-Christian religions. Yet the basic policy thus enunciated was one that accepted, as a basic doctrinal principle, that no one could be coerced into baptism against his or her will. This is something that the Church still fiercely believes, while admitting historic deviations from it:


"...10. It is one of the major tenets of Catholic doctrine that man's response to God in faith must be free: no one therefore is to be forced to embrace the Christian faith against his own will.(8) This doctrine is contained in the word of God and it was constantly proclaimed by the Fathers of the Church.(7) The act of faith is of its very nature a free act....12. In faithfulness therefore to the truth of the Gospel, the Church is following the way of Christ and the apostles when she recognizes and gives support to the principle of religious freedom as befitting the dignity of man and as being in accord with divine revelation. Throughout the ages the Church has kept safe and handed on the doctrine received from the Master and from the apostles. In the life of the People of God, as it has made its pilgrim way through the vicissitudes of human history, there has at times appeared a way of acting that was hardly in accord with the spirit of the Gospel or even opposed to it. Nevertheless, the doctrine of the Church that no one is to be coerced into faith has always stood firm..."

- Dignitatis Humanae (Declaration on Religious Freedom), Second Vatican Council, 1965

You (and a previous poster even more so) are being too judgemental of the Abrahamic religions IMHO, sadly not an uncommon occurrence.


Many verses from the bible say otherwise.
And even the pope says "who m I judge gays" then remains silent on the LGBT genocide in Kenya and Uganda and speaks out against gay marriage.
So the Vatican statement of paper doesn't always go where the church takes them.
Inquisition, Crusades, witchunts, forced conversions in Goa (also inquisition) and other grave atrocities speak differently.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Many verses from the bible say otherwise.
And even the pope says "who m I judge gays" then remains silent on the LGBT genocide in Kenya and Uganda and speaks out against gay marriage.
So the Vatican statement of paper doesn't always go where the church takes them.
Inquisition, Crusades, witchunts, forced conversions in Goa (also inquisition) and other grave atrocities speak differently.

And periods like the Church's defence of the rights of the Native Indians - through papal decree, Jesuit Reductions (reserves) and the literature of the School of Salamanca - against the most powerful Catholic Empire then in existence, Spain, demonstrates the other side of the coin: when the Church did practise what it preached, when its own acted intolerantly against the letter of the law.

Consider also, the papal opposition to the "blood libel":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel#Papal_pronouncements

    • Pope Innocent IV took action against the blood libel: "5 July 1247 "Mandate to the prelates of Germany and France to annul all measures adopted against the Jews on account of the ritual murder libel, and to prevent accusation of Arabs on similar charges" (The Apostolic See and the Jews, Documents: 492-1404; Simonsohn, Shlomo, p. 188-189,193-195,208). In 1247 he wrote also that "Certain of the clergy, and princes, nobles and great lords of your cities and dioceses have falsely devised certain godless plans against the Jews, unjustly depriving them by force of their property, and appropriating it themselves;...they falsely charge them with dividing up among themselves on the Passover the heart of a murdered boy...In their malice, they ascribe every murder, wherever it chance to occur, to the Jews. And on the ground of these and other fabrications, they are filled with rage against them, rob them of their possessions without any formal accusation, without confession, and without legal trial and conviction, contrary to the privileges granted to them by the Apostolic See...Since it is our pleasure that they shall not be disturbed,...we ordain that ye behave towards them in a friendly and kind manner. Whenever any unjust attacks upon them come under your notice, redress their injuries, and do not suffer them to be visited in the future by similar tribulations" (Catholic Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. 8, pp. 393–394). [1]
    • Pope Gregory X (1271–1276) issued a letter which criticized the practice of blood libels and forbade arrests and persecution of Jews based on a blood libel, ...unless which we do not believe they be caught in the commission of the crime. .[69]
    • Pope Paul III, in a bull of 12 May 1540, made clear his displeasure at having learned, through the complaints of the Jews of Hungary, Bohemia and Poland, that their enemies, looking for a pretext to lay their hands on the Jews' property, were falsely attributing terrible crimes to them, in particular that of killing children and drinking their blood.

Do you deny that this was official papal policy throughout much of the medieval era?

Not black and white. It is easy to look at any ancient institution and caricature it based upon the negative elements of the history. The reverse is true too: you can whitewash it by looking only at the positives. Reductionism is not healthy either way.

An objective balance is needed. We must remember the victims of the Catholic Goa Inquisition alongside the Jews whom Pope Alexander II and Viscount Berengar managed to save from a massacre in the early 11th century:


https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...fMAhUIDMAKHcV9BFYQ6AEIMjAE#v=onepage&q&f=true


"....Alexander II, the Roman Pope, persuaded the defenders of the church (during the crusade) not to deviate from their aim, and not to harass Jews on their march. In a letter, the Pope praised the conduct of the viscount Berengar thus: 'We think highly of your prudence and good judgement in saving from death the Jews who live under your dominion, because God does not like bloodshed"...In a special missive, the Pope had to remind his spiritual colleague that 'both the Christian and the temporal laws prohibit bloodshed, the shedding of human blood'..."
And again:


https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...MAhWrCcAKHZZfDR0Q6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q&f=false


"...We should remember that Pope Alexander II had to make representations to Landulph, Prince of Benevento in 1066, censuring such conduct:

'No one should be forced to serve Christ,' he wrote, 'but let every man reach his own decision according to his own free will'
...."​


https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XVzdAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA146&dq=pope+alexander+ii+jews+blood&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiSys-NmtfMAhVMC8AKHfXJB9k4ChDoAQghMAE#v=onepage&q=pope alexander ii jews blood&f=false


"...In other letters, Pope Alexander II was to commend both the archbishop and the viscount of Narbonne for protecting Jews against those intent on killing them. He also reprimanded the lord of Benevento for seeking to convert Jews to Christianity by force: nowhere (he affirmed) is it recorded that Jesus Christ ever compelled anyone to his service by violence. The Saviour had persuaded by humble exhortation, respecting the free will of each individual person..."​


That was in 1066 the Church's official doctrinal position and remains so today. Yes, it was broken many times but it still held in terms of canon law. Those who violated this teaching - including on occasion popes themselves - were sinning.

As the Jains remind us, most aspects of life are not "one-sided". If one looks at it from only a single vantage point, they err - because what is seen is simply a distortion of reality created by one's own bias.

EDIT: I should add, Catholics are not "bible literalists" or "sola scriptura" believers. The Magisterium of the Church interprets sacred scripture, so "many verses of the bible say..." is not a good argument vis-à-vis the RCC.
 
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Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
1. Christianity - most bloodthirsty destroyer of advanced philosophy before such a thing even got off the ground in Western Civilization; we (as a human race) would be several millennia further in our intellectual evolution if this garbage were never endorsed in the first place and infected almost every segment of today's world in some sick way. You can blame all of today's world problem's completely on the tradition of "Christianity" (I'm not going to endorse the many perverted branches of this cult).

In pure Darwinian terms, the fittest survives best because it is the fittest to survive.
If there was a superior philosophy/religion then that would become the scapegoat for people's problems.

In your defense, our "intellectual evolution" does suffer from the problem than any good idea
makes itself available to appropriation by anybody with any agenda, thereby actually
diluting the authenticity of any successful idea into "perverted branches".

This is precisely why Jesus gave us the parable of the good Samaritan.
The mistake you make is to confuse this authentic vision with the "perverted branches".
The Samaritan parable is supposed to warn people as to how any title or outward
appearance is not the same as the inner truth of personality.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
These can be good.
But religions have had some moral values which would make these traits serve evil,
eg, fighting gay marriage, killing infidels, manifest destiny, the crusades, radical Islam.
I don't think those are moral values at all, personally. They are presented as such, I guess.
 
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