Berlin demonstration and Corona

[stvdv]

I have no doubt covid19 is a real virus, family members have died from it without any other sicknesses.

Your own family members died? Even multiple? I did not expect that.
I saw that Norway only had 250 death, whereas Holland has 6500 death
Even I don't know anyone here in Holland personally who died of Corona

 

[Spirit of Light]

Your own family members died? Even multiple? I did not expect that.
I saw that Norway only had 250 death, whereas Holland has 6500 death
Even I don't know anyone here in Holland personally who died of Corona

Yes my aunt died and a cousin died a few days ago. So I had it close to me.

 

[ChristineM]

Maybe my English fails me here, but this sounds like Corona caused death to me??

Yes she died of Covid19, but there are many people who would say she died of an underlying cause. The fact that without covid19 she would still be alive today seems to be beyond their grasp

IF below link is not fake news, it seems that regular flu also has quite a high number of death worldwide. Corona maybe a little more.

There are several diseases more deadly, heart disease and stroke for example. However covid19 is responsible for 3/4 of a million premature deaths that should not have happened when they did

We have quite a few in Holland who don't follow 1.5 meter masked instructions, so they don't care spreading
We had a few in the Dutch news, who on purpose spread it (spitting in other's face). Of course could be fake news
Indeed, spreading on purpose seems idotic, unless they have a vaccination ready or keep a masked 1.5 meter distance

I took your questionnaire as meaning globally. Individual lunatics spreading it on purpose have little effect on overall contagion

 

[stvdv]

Yes my aunt died and a cousin died a few days ago. So I had it close to me.

My condolences. And that is real close
And aunt and cousin does not sound very old

If I had seen someone close die of it, probably it would feel more real for me
Now, for me, it's more like a movie. I do take precautions serious, but don't feel fear or so

 

[McBell]

You mean that they go out on the street, while they know they have it, with the objective to give it to others?

Coronavirus: Man accused of spitting and coughing on produce at grocery store in Massachusetts

A grocery store threw out $35,000 in food that a woman intentionally coughed on, sparking coronavirus fears, police said - CNN

Coronavirus: Grocery store customers tackle man after he allegedly coughed, spat on produce

Police: Woman coughed, spat on food in grocery claiming she had coronavirus

Police investigating ‘disturbing trend’ of teens coughing on produce | KRON4

 

[McBell]

Usually people don't like to admit their errors, so if Corona would have originated in USA, I think USA might have tried to hide it too, or try to handle it first themselves, before alarming the whole world, don't you think? Not something to be proud of (if it's caused by unhygenic markets).

Hells bells, with Trump now controlling the US Covid information I expect the numbers to magically drop

 

[icehorse]

I think we need to put everything we have in to getting accurate, reliable data. All of our decisions depend on it.

 

[stvdv]

Yes she died of Covid19, but there are many people who would say she died of an underlying cause. The fact that without covid19 she would still be alive today seems to be beyond their grasp

Thanks. Indeed this makes sense to me. If someones prognosis is 6 years with Alzheimer and suddenly dies, then it's obvious corona for me.
When someone had a Heart attack + Corona then I would call it Heart attack I think
When someone had Aids + Corona then I would call it Aids I think

But I do understands it's a bit tricky to determine (and name) the real cause if there are multiple diseases/causes

There are several diseases more deadly, heart disease and stroke for example. However covid19 is responsible for 3/4 of a million premature deaths that should not have happened when they did

Yes, I saw the counter already on 700 thousand, and still 5 month to go (including nov.dec), so it could even spike much more. And in the next month I expect there to be a big spike in Germany due to the ca. 1 million demonstrating, ignoring mask and distancing.

 

[stvdv]

I took your questionnaire as meaning globally. Individual lunatics spreading it on purpose have little effect on overall contagion

True, individual spreading seems little, although Corona did start with 1, so even this we should not downplay. Many don't take this 1.5 meter+mask serious. In Holland the government now debate to stop using masks, as it is not scientifically proven; common sense they obviously don't have it seems to me or at least they don't use it).

First I thought it's idiotic to spread a virus on purpose, because you can die yourself. Then I heard a Chinese Admiral say on tv (just a few month before Corona showed up "we should kill 10 thousand Americans and see how much fear they have in them".

Some people declared me crazy on RF when I mentioned this at the time, while arguing "there are only a few death due to the virus, never 10.000". But today I look and America does have 160.000 death, so the Chinese Admiral got what he wished for on tv, and more.

And due to this quote of the Admiral, I keep the option open, that there might be foul play from China and/or others

But I don't know anything for sure. Time will tell. Normally truth prevails (one day, maybe not immediately, but they will investigate I think; although China really boycots investigations so far).

 

[McBell]

Thanks. Indeed this makes sense to me. If someones prognosis is 6 years with Alzheimer and suddenly dies, then it's obvious corona for me.
When someone had a Heart attack + Corona then I would call it Heart attack I think
When someone had Aids + Corona then I would call it Aids I think

But I do understands it's a bit tricky to determine (and name) the real cause if there are multiple diseases/causes

The thing is, people do not die from AIDS or Alzheimer's.
The cause of death is some other reason with AIDS or Alzheimer's contributing.

In fact, the only way to confirm Alzheimer's is an autopsy.

Don't get me wrong.
So far as I know, most diagnoses of Alzheimer's are correct diagnoses-es, but it can only be confirmed with autopsy.

 

[McBell]

True, individual spreading seems little, although Corona did start with 1, so even this we should not downplay.

I am now confused.
It is my understanding individual spreading is the MAIN way Covid is spreading...
Thus the reason for the masks and social distancing.

 

[ChristineM]

But I do understands it's a bit tricky to determine (and name) the real cause if there are multiple diseases/causes

People can survive heart attack, if CV19 has weakened their system at the time of the heart attack how do we tell what is responsible?

And there is medication that allow aids sufferers to live a long life. Aids may have weakened their system but if they didn't catch CV19 then chances are they would survive for years

Yes, I saw the counter already on 700 thousand, and still 5 month to go (including nov.dec), so it could even spike much more. And in the next month I expect there to be a big spike in Germany due to the ca. 1 million demonstrating, ignoring mask and distancing.

If people are not social distancing and not masking then they can only blame themselves

 

[ChristineM]

True, individual spreading seems little, although Corona did start with 1, so even this we should not downplay. Many don't take this 1.5 meter+mask serious. In Holland the government now debate to stop using masks, as it is not scientifically proven; common sense they obviously don't have it seems to me or at least they don't use it).

First I thought it's idiotic to spread a virus on purpose, because you can die yourself. Then I heard a Chinese Admiral say on tv (just a few month before Corona showed up "we should kill 10 thousand Americans and see how much fear they have in them".

Some people declared me crazy on RF when I mentioned this at the time, while arguing "there are only a few death due to the virus, never 10.000". But today I look and America does have 160.000 death, so the Chinese Admiral got what he wished for on tv, and more.

And due to this quote of the Admiral, I keep the option open, that there might be foul play from China and/or others

But I don't know anything for sure. Time will tell. Normally truth prevails (one day, maybe not immediately, but they will investigate I think; although China really boycots investigations so far).

It is proven that masks reduce the spread of the disease

And many chinese have died too, killing your own people is not a way to succeed

 

[stvdv]

Hells bells, with Trump now controlling the US Covid information I expect the numbers to magically drop

Oh, yes, I forgot about Trump. With him, we would only be Graced with honest information, no doubt.
(He could never contain himself for more than 24 hours, before twittering the latest news)

 

[McBell]

Oh, yes, I forgot about Trump. With him, we would only be Graced with honest information, no doubt.
(He could never contain himself for more than 24 hours, before twittering the latest news)

In all actuality, I will be much surprised if Trump did not halt testing so he can say that the number of new cases has dropped....

 

[McBell]

And many chinese have died too, killing your own people is not a way to succeed

A big problem with China is that the government there does not care a crickets fart about truth.
It cares about image above all else.

 

[stvdv]

I am now confused.
It is my understanding individual spreading is the MAIN way Covid is spreading...
Thus the reason for the masks and social distancing.

Agreed. Hence I used the word "seem"

 

[stvdv]

People can survive heart attack, if CV19 has weakened their system at the time of the heart attack how do we tell what is responsible?

So, then the only honest solution is to say "It's not due to Corona". They could say "It's due to Corona+HeartAttack"

And there is medication that allow aids sufferers to live a long life. Aids may have weakened their system but if they didn't catch CV19 then chances are they would survive for years

So, then the only honest solution is to say "It's not due to Corona". They could say "It's due to Corona+Aids"
Because if the person had not Aids then his immune system would be better and Corona might not have killed him

 

[stvdv]

It is proven that masks reduce the spread of the disease

You need not tell me, tell our Prime Minister. Even a tiny common sense (1%) is enough to know this to be a fact. No proof needed even.

And many chinese have died too, killing your own people is not a way to succeed

China is known for population control. 1.3 billion is a lot. IF a few million die, I don't see the rich ones in charge shed a tear. They maybe even rejoice
(I remember hearing about the millions of Muslims they send to camps; just because they are Muslim)

 

[McBell]

So, then the only honest solution is to say "It's not due to Corona". They could say "It's due to Corona+HeartAttack"


So, then the only honest solution is to say "It's not due to Corona". They could say "It's due to Corona+Aids"
Because if the person had not Aids then his immune system would be better and Corona might not have killed him

You may find this helpful/useful:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/blue_form.pdf​