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Featured Bergoglio's crucifix

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Estro Felino, Aug 12, 2022.

  1. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    No, thank you.
    A Vatican who condones Freemasonry makes me sick.
     
  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Estro Felino said:
    Someone sent me this picture of Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio wearing this interesting crucifix.
    I had never seen such crucifix in my entire life.

    View attachment 65378

    I zoomed the image, and then searched for it ...and apparently it deals with this crucifix:

    Do you guys know what it stands for?
    I guess I have never seen a crucifix portraying a live Jesus.
    I guess it portrays Jesus as shepherd.

    upload_2022-10-13_4-52-6.png

    ichthys symbol

    In early Christian history, the ichthys symbol held "the most sacred significance." It has been claimed that Christians used it to recognize churches and other believers during a time when they faced persecution in the Roman Empire.

    Ichthys - Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Ichthys

    Right?

    Regards
     
  3. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    Estro Felino You don't know for sure!
    Seems to me you want to make a mountain out of a mole hill!
     
  4. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Absolutely not.
    An Italian bishop joined the opening ceremony of a Masonic temple.
    That's beyond unacceptable.

     
  5. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    Estro Felino the Church knows it is unacceptable... I am sure they are looking into it!
    In Germany a Bishop wants to make woman priests and gay marriage! THERE.....

    Estro Felino there has always been scandal in the Church! For two thousand years there is scandal!
    11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
    13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul
    ?
    &
    Galatians 2:11
    Paul Opposes Cephas
    When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
     
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  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    If one's loved one say one's brother is wounded/killed by someone with a gunshot, would one love that gun, please? Right?
    Why then love a crucifix, please? Right?

    Regards
     
  7. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    paarsurrey I hope all is well...
    You have a good question the simple answer is "We were saved by the Cross". Jesus destroyed death from the cross, he restored life! A crucifix is a symbol of perfect love!
    Jesus gave us his life from the cross, when we look upon a crucifix we are reminded of God' Love for us!

    paarsurrey Christians use the cross it is their symbol. When you see a cross on a building you know instantly it is a Christian Church, when you see a person make the sign you know instantly the person is a Christian! Satan hates the Cross; it was by the cross that he was defeated he would never allow any of his children to use the symbol. Satan hates Christians he hates that Christians use the Cross! Christians are Christ Followers!
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "We were saved by the Cross"

    Cross doesn't save anybody, it is a wrong notion, please? Right?

    Regards
     
  9. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    Adam sinned and brought death into creation.
    Jesus the second Adam died and brought Life back!

    Jesus died on the cross .... Willingly died, he "Gave" himself to us freely out of perfect love for us!
    The cross represents God' love for us Christians!
    Christians revere the Cross because it reminds us of God' love for us!

    When a Christian looks at the crucifix, we remember Jesus' giving of himself to us!

    The Cross is a Christian symbol! Satan was defeated by the cross it brought life back for us; Satan hates the cross he will never let his children to use the cross it is a perfect symbol of love!
     
  10. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Any body else, please

    Regards
     
  11. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    " Willingly died "

    Does one mean that it was just a drama to save Hellenist Pauline Christians from the sins as they cannot stop from sinning so to save them their cruel-deity in heavens decided to kill his son on the Cross so the son had to commit suicide willingly, please? Right?
    Why can't the Pauline Christians stop sinning on their own as did Moses , please? Right?
    It is another thing that Jesus did not die on the Cross, so there is no question of this willing Suicidal drama had ever happened, please? Right?
    The Pauline-Christians! kindly don't remain in the illusion that they are saved from the sins, Christians are not saved most certainly, one gets to know, please. Right?

    Regards
     
  12. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    paarsurrey Jesus dying on the "Cross" saved us! The death and resurrection of Jesus saved man! The Cross became a symbol of LIFE!

    Christians use the Cross to represent them... You see a "Cross" you know instantly it is Christian! Satan "The Anti-Christ" hates the cross he does not allow a cross on any of his churches or to be used by his children!
    paarsurrey the "Anti-Christ" is Anti-Christian! Thus, all who reject the cross are doing the work of Satan!
     
  13. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    paarsurrey Christians use the "CROSS" it is a CHRISTIAN symbol because Jesus died on a Cross!
    Satan hates the Cross! Joseph Rutherford, taught, “The cross of Christ is the greatest pivotal truth of the divine arrangement, from which radiate the hopes of men.”
    The Anti-Christ hates the Cross the Anti-Christ is Anti-Christian!
    The first-century Roman philosopher Seneca the Younger described crucifixions in a variety of ways. He writes:
    I see before me crosses not all alike, but differently made by different peoples: some hang a man head downwards, some force a stick upwards through his groin, some stretch out his arms on a forked gibbet
    In the year A.D. 100, the epistle of Barnabas described how Jesus’ outstretched arms on the cross were similar to Moses’ outstretched arms in a battle with the Amalekites.
    The second-century apologist Justin Martyr eloquently described the crossbeams used to crucify Jesus. In the third century, Tertullian said that Christians used the Greek letter tau, or “T,” as a sign of the cross.
    Biblical scholar Larry Hurtado has even shown how Christian writers in the second century combined the Greek letters for T and R in order to create a symbol that represented the crucifixion called a staurogram.
    paarsurrey There is abundant evidence among the early Christians who believed that Jesus was executed on a cross.

    All men are sinners!

    paarsurrey Jesus GAVE himself willingly no one forced Jesus to go to the cross!
    Galatians 1:3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever.
    Ephesians 5:2
    and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
    Ephesians 5:25
    Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
    1 Timothy 2:5
    For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time
    .
    Titus 2:14
    who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
     
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    " Christians use the "CROSS" it is a CHRISTIAN symbol because Jesus died on a Cross! "

    One has poor knowledge of one's religion one claims to adhere to, please. Right?
    Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah never made Cross a symbol of the religion he believed in and acted upon, one gets to know, please. Right?
    If not, then kindly quote from Yeshua where he made explicitly and in very clear terms " Cross" a symbol of his religion, please. Right?
    I quote here an old post #113 in RF:

    " Cross is a symbol of terror/cruelty adopted by the Church.
    Cross should have not been used on the roof tops of the churches or worn in the neck by the peaceful Christians, of course one does not display the device (knife/dagger/sword) with which one’s loved one has been killed. It is most illogical and irrational to use this symbol for a religion. Is it necessary to continue the mistakes of the ancient people, please? Right?

    The scene of Christian God Father cutting throat of Jesus or putting Jesus of Bible on the Cross for imaginary salvation or atonement of the sins of the Catholics Protestants is most cruel form of terror. Right?

    I think it is for this that truthful Messenger Prophet Muhammad when he mentioned of Second Coming of Jesus, he also mentioned of rectification of this mistake of the Church continuing it without guidance from Jesus, please. Right?

    Muhammad mentioned that when Jesus Second Coming will take place, Jesus will break the Cross. Of course this would be done by Jesus with rational and logical reasons. Jesus in his Second Coming would expose the tricks of the cunning (Hellenist) Paul who invented the Theological Philosophy of Jesus’ death on Cross. Later Church fixed the Cross as the symbol of the Modern Christianity so Jesus in Second Coming will point out mistake of the (Hellenist- Pauline) Church and its false creeds, never sponsored by Jesus at all. Right?

    This is my understanding of the symbol of “Cross”.
    No intention to insult any people", please. Right?

    Regards
    ____________
    #113 in RF
    Re: What use does an atheist have for deities?
    #196 paarsurrey
    Re: What use does an atheist have for deities?
     
  15. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    paarsurrey God became man so he could die as a man! Can't die as a man if not born as man!
    All who reject the Cross are NOT Christian! Satan hates the Cross he would never allow his Children to put a cross on any of his churches!

    God died; he was sinless so death could not hold him!
    All ADDED to the risen "Can't die body of Jesus also will live forever!

    The Cross is how Jesus defeated death he defeated death by dying! The Cross is how he did it!
    Christians have always used the sign of the Cross as their symbol they are Followers of Christ!

    Emperor Constantine painted the "Cross" on the shields of his army because he had a belief he would win against his enemies by this sign! He won and made Christianity the religion of the state! The Cross goes back to the beginning!
     
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