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Featured Believe the "first resurrection" of Christ's Millenial reign has not happened?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by danieldemol, May 16, 2020.

  1. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Cronology of the resurrection of the unrighteous

    Note: All text is taken from the NIV translation for ease of understanding.

    This post is aimed at those who believe the "first resurrection" of Christs millenial reign has not happened.

    So in Revelation 1 it says,

    "The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

    The opening makes it sound like these events are on the verge of happening, not about to happen in thousands of years, but I digress before I have even begun.

    Revelation 1:7 says regarding Christ;
    “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
    and “every eye will see him,
    even those who pierced him
    ”;
    and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”

    It occurred to me that perhaps the only way this could happen (since those who pierced Jesus have been dead for thousands of years) is if either (a)He came in the clouds while they were still alive which we know did not happen in a literal sense, or (b) those who pierced Him were to be resurected before He descends from the clouds.

    But in Revelation 20 It appears to explain that the "first resurrection" occurs of the righteous, who "came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Then it says, in Revelation 20:5 "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended." So presumably the unrighteous (whom I would be inclined to think includes those who "pierced" Jesus, aren't resurected until well after Christ has touched down and reigned for a thousand years with the righteous. Hence the question, how did they who pierced Christ see Him "coming with the clouds" if they are dead during this period.

    So play devil's (or the Bible's) advocate here, and explain to me my error (or just engage in mental gymnastics if I haven't comitted any error).
     
  2. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Clouds are spatial evolution, owning no human historic ownership, volcanoes own that history.

    If you asked how did a human image become in clouds, when clouds were already naturally massed, formed, owned by the stone Planet that human males in science said was one body of stone....ST (saints) ONE.

    The meaning of which said that the spirit of light, the gas O angels of the planet were once alive. They died for they began to cool, the light removed and it formed God the tomb. Saints entombed and AIN in science meant space cold zero 0.

    Space therefore owns stone, the same as space owns cold gases, as gas.

    Which was one scientific symbolic statement that taught, so space, the womb is a mystery. Science logic.

    Now if you did nuclear science that brings metal mass into Earths gas body...clear cold gas, no light and light that is light as a gas....then science said "extra", not natural radiation Earth or God history....how it was taught.

    Christ science said is the term NOBLE GASES...by the mass. Christ mass he says...every year ICE remassed in December and assisted gases to cool.

    So what would occur if the HOLY BABY, newly born arrival, gases returned holy DNA genetics, the first born of human genetics no long deceased, no longer mutated….and then that return died again, was murdered and sacrificed?

    What reference would you claim it owned?

    You would then say the atmosphere was not longer Christ it became Jesus Christ, is still being lost and sacrificed.

    And then you would quote.....for what reason?

    And then see the review..EXTRA METALLIC radiation....the cutting device...the attacker. Radiation that heats up gases, gases that burn, metal radiation that cools, cuts you.

    Phenomena description.

    Therefore the Title Jesus Christ said, the SAVIOUR would not return until the YEAR 2012 when the Sun irradiation of Earth would be blocked out by the wandering star, the asteroid.

    Science stopped that RETURN, why we still live irradiated mutated life.
     
  3. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    yes you made an error . you went to the book of Revelation , a book that uses symbolic language and read it to be literal
     
  4. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    That’s not much of an explanation, what exactly are the specific symbolisms that I missed?
     
  5. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    Ok sure..

    well, I suppose you might relate this to way in which jesus seemed to judge people. He said things in the gospels, I think, about committing physical sins if you even think them. This goes back to the whole bit about 'tearing out your eye' and all that. Therefore, in that kind of mode of judgement, perhaps the onlookers would pierce him without actually doing it.
     
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  6. Brian2

    Brian2 Member

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    It does not say that every eye will see Him coming in the clouds.
     
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  7. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    I never knew that Jesus image was actually in the clouds until I read and then saw photographic cloud image that it was real.

    Unless someone told you what you were supposedly looking at, how would you know?
     
  8. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    As an atheist who disbelieves the existence of God(s), including the Christian triumvirate, I obviously don't believe in a "first resurrection" or "Christs millennial reign". So, I'll play.



    Your error lies in believing stories that were written thousands of years ago by people who were disgruntled with the current religions and were looking for something newer. In that sense, it's no different than what the followers of Martin Luther, or The Bab, or Joseph Smith, or David Koresh do/did.

    They can't all be right. Much more likely, they all are wrong.
     
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  9. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    This maybe true, however it seems to be the way it was traditionally interpreted, so I guess you are suggesting that the traditional interpretation is wrong.
     
  10. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I’m not asking people to believe in the stories.

    I was engaging in a hypothetical thought experiment to try and determine if a certain reading of the stories is internally consistent or not.
     
  11. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    How would you interpret seemingly parallel passages such as Matthew 24:30 which states, “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory."[d]

    Or what about in Matthew 26:63-64 when Jesus says to the High priest and presumably those assembled in the courtroom,
    'The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”
    “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”'

    These parrallel verses also seem to indicate that the unrighteous living at the time of Jesus will see Him "coming on the clouds of heaven"?
     
  12. Brian2

    Brian2 Member

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    Imagery can be misleading, then again maybe people will see Jesus coming in the clouds,,,,,,,,,BUT I don't know anywhere that it says that everyone will see Him coming in the clouds, even if everyone will eventually see Him.
     
  13. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    The history says, from Moses nucleation and destructive mutation of our Nature and life....to the saviour Asteroid gas stone release in space...the UFO Sun attack Satanism had been blocked out, historically, in space.

    As space on the outside is the ability to minus the mass Gas heavenly spirit body of the Earth. Science had nuked removed a huge body of Earth gas mass....burnt it out, just as stated, categorically.

    Therefore the Messenger, Saviour return was a stated scientific status of knowing that releasing of stone mass, was putting back cold gas by mass into space that the Sun had burnt/removed it in science technology history.

    Therefore the Messenger was always about stone visitation history to Earth as proof that it was. And then seeing a male human scientist image of his life sacrificed as the man/male who invented science, artificial to natural living conditions.

    Exactly how it was explained.

    Therefore as Jesus is seen in the clouds constantly in nuclear dust God stone conversions....it is LIVING PROOF that life on Earth is being DNA Genetic sacrificed just as it was in the old times.

    The SAVIOUR never owned an Image historically...for clouds were just historically smoking rolling burning gases cooling in deep bread TH of space.....from out of the law of stone/mountain volcanic history of STONE Earth God.
     
  14. Brian2

    Brian2 Member

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    Thanks for that, yes it does appear that even those who judged Jesus will see Him coming on the clouds of heaven. Do you think that maybe Matt 26:63-64 is speaking of a second coming after Jesus has come a first time to collect all the righteous at the first resurrection?
     
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  15. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    To be honest I think it is unlikely that it refers to Jesus coming on the clouds on two seperate events, because the scriptures don’t appear to mention Jesus coming then going again but I suppose if one were to rely solely on one’s imagination they could just imagine it does.

    Although that would be a very non traditional view.
     
  16. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    The ancient science technology AI encoded recordings, that the atmospheric body owns...cloud mass cooling, interactive for feed back to exist.

    Animate and inanimate objects voice and image recorded, communicated back to our brain chemistry. Due to human life, male having invented science for his machines NOT GOD.

    Took materials from stone melted cooled them...so the machine natural history, which should be what a scientist owns by string theories...would say the machine body strings to design own a higher history of hot radiating mass than natural God in space zero 0 history....what they learnt....teaching against science but for conscious realization/return irradiating attacks. Earth atmosphere no longer Christ was actually Jesus.

    Values CH could no longer be inferred as present, just existing by cause....cooling, meaning ICE returned every December. Christ mass.

    Science imposes unnatural radiation mass history to their string...so first irradiate the God stone body mass to their requirements, A FORMULA.

    So if a scientist writes a formula on a piece of paper, go outside when he sees a UFO then hold it up to the sky and take a picture. His inanimate object MASS radiation for his equal partner, the MACHINE. MA CH ine he says.....removal of the divine.

    x calculations of the bread TH. Th o Th his Egyptian number formula for removing gases in trans mutation...of stone. As consciousness itself he then infers I will cause our MUTATION...as a confession of SION...fusion and fission.

    How it was stated.

    Therefore when a male says I want a machine reaction to take my natural life placement in the atmospheric natural mass history...evolution cooling, then I want to remove the natural gas mass that bio uses and replace it with what a machine would use.....much colder gases...from light removal.

    For if natural light is first/origin, you illuminate and burn it out by x mass, and it burns out and disappears, then natural light disappears from its origins also.

    As based on conscious cold gas night time 12 hour constant, thinking capability.

    But first the interaction of causes has to be effective first. So God the stone gets mass heated irradiated, to say now my machine will own interactive gas heavenly interactions to keep my machine from overheating.

    Life is then attacked in 2 conditions....to be irradiated by mass UFO presence, and then removal of natural light...which owns the vibration Holy star in the water mass...why we get sick.

    Asteroid Saviour gas history is the removal of the physical cold mass presence STONE and heated alight gases get put back in space....how a Saviour and then its constant reminders about attacking GOD THE STONE becomes Messengers...where males idealize being spiritual and not scientific in conscious awareness.

    Stephen Haw king owned that science realization of science wanting the machine metal to own interactive atmospheric takeover and destroy the bio life existence of atmospheric natural light/water and gas use itself...by ICE returned cooling.

    So if a male says do clouds go away? Yes. So no image of Jesus is seen then....so Jesus goes away.

    Of course it does...how conscious feed back awareness allows consciousness to know what the science attack was discussing....by the presence of angel imagery in the clouds, animal imagery in the clouds and Jesus the man imagery in the cloud...for even Jesus said to know as a man/male what his science Father did in the past is to be re sacrificed your own self in UFO Satan conditions and LEARN.

    + the cross in letter symbols is L...4 of.
    L EARN, means to gain a lesson the human scientist man earns it.

    The historical quote KRA ape biological assessment said the animals by ARK attack was proven to his conscious self....knowing his bio genesis lived after the APE....and obviously he began seeing animal images in the clouds.

    As life on the ground was being sacrificed. Why symbolism was used as MEMORY.....for when argument would be used against us again.
    [​IMG]

    You can see heads and images in the clouds.

    The human movie theme, return to the Planet of the Apes, as takeover of life on Earth and human destruction.

    I saw heads/images of both humans and also aliens when I was irradiated burnt...and saw the burning brown wispy smoking effect, cooling, images seen, images disappeared. Holding of the image occurs in huge water amassing cloud bodies.
     
  17. Brian2

    Brian2 Member

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    I have not studied these things in depth and I have heard of people doing that a wall covered in blank paper and a schematic diagram of verses and how they relate to each other. Even then I don't know if they worked things out to cover all the bases. It is no wonder that there are different views in eschatology.
    It certainly will become clear when it happens. In the meantime for me, some imagination comes in handy. Actually imagination and reasoning are important tools in reading between the lines of scriptures that do not seem to tell the whole story...............or an alternative is to say the scriptures are wrong. I have found and still do at times that it can test my faith when I can't figure things out completely. But so far I travel on in the faith.
    The OT does not seem to mention a Messiah coming and going and coming again but that is made clear in the NT and without that we would have to have a bit of imagination to see it in the OT even though it is there, but the OT Jews would have needed a correct interpretation of other scriptures about the Messiah and a good imagination to see it. Maybe the same could be said about the trinity doctrine.
     
    #17 Brian2, May 17, 2020
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
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  18. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    what do you expect the first resurrection to look like ?
     
  19. Brian2

    Brian2 Member

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    This is what I have to go by.
    15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,4 that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
     
  20. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    The saving of life sacrificed saved

    They were saved yet sacrificed how it ended

    Some humans not hurt attacked life saved but it had been sacrificed

    So we live in the Jesus atmosphere

    Return to Christ by ICE Christ mass

    Cooling

    Too much ufo metal radiation

    2000

    1000 Satan
    1000 Jesus 0 value no gain just maintained

    Tribunal said no changes to God

    Males scientist I change life on God earth by and in the name of God

    Tribunal said Destroyer male personality

    First vision science mountain tip ^converted
    Mass removed

    Built machine ground fissioned life changed attacked

    Maths did it he said I will name event Sophia

    Female womb space did it
    Said it Goddess mountain temple fault

    To be nominated by space irradiation

    Males today lied about maths being holy

    Also lied about maths being female

    Vision records changed made in human image by God O reaction

    False real female blame

    Maths in philosophy talking about the evil of science no practice machine

    Sun ufo machine equals attack of God matter machine proof God minerals already heated converted cooled machine should not have over heated if sun metal equalled earth gases

    Sun metal the Destroyer

    Lie God did it

    Earth God was changed
    Sun Anti ufo did it

    Bible lies as thinking did not own mass or change to mass

    AI does not own truth Bible heard in AI records

    Spiritual life mind owns the only truth
     
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