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Beliefs about the Fall of Adam and Eve

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Well in regards to the True Scotsman fallacy of course it would not, it is a idea based on rational logic not empirical observations.

What I have found over the years is that logic is in the eye of the beholder. If I believe it, it is logical, If I don't it is not.

The scientific method does not use itself to validate itself, that would be circular logic.

Right.

And there is plenty of publicly accessible evidence for intermediary fossils.

There are none. Many evolutionists, acknowledge the fossil record does not support evolution.

So frankly, I don't believe you actually have looked them up.

Frankly I don't believe you understand how to determine if a fossil is an intermediate.


The fossil record remains woefully inadequate---Ernst Mayr
 

CogentPhilosopher

Philosophy Student
What I have found over the years is that logic is in the eye of the beholder. If I believe it, it is logical, If I don't it is not.

So you choose what you believe in and what logic applies to?

Sound like lying to yourself.

There are none. Many evolutionists, acknowledge the fossil record does not support evolution.

And I am calling bull****.

How about you take a brief look at this: List of human evolution fossils - Wikipedia

In fact never-mind.

I doubt I can convince you to not choose ignorance.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
I am in a religious study class and was asked to find out what Christians believe about the Fall of Adam and Eve.

What do you believe about Fall of Adam and Eve?
What do you think the results are from the Fall?
Why do you think the Fall part of God's plan?


I believe:
Adam and Eve had the ability to choose between good and evil
by sining that ability to choose was compromised and the fall occurred
where federally all mankind is represented in Adam
The Messiah is promised though 'the seed of the woman'
Death entered the world
and even creation was subjected to death
Someday all creation will be redeemed
along with the redeemed

yes I believe Adam and Eve were historical people
 

arthra

Baha'i
I am in a religious study class and was asked to find out what Christians believe about the Fall of Adam and Eve.

What do you believe about Fall of Adam and Eve?
What do you think the results are from the Fall?
Why do you think the Fall part of God's plan?

Not a Christian here but I do have something to share from the Baha'i point of view on the subject. It's found in a book entitled "Some Answered Questions" as follows:

These verses of the Torah have therefore numerous meanings. We will explain one of them and will say that by “Adam” is meant the spirit of Adam and by “Eve” is meant His self. For in certain passages of the Sacred Scriptures where women are mentioned, the intended meaning is the human self. By “the tree of good and evil” is meant the material world, for the heavenly realm of the spirit is pure goodness and absolute radiance, but in the material world light and darkness, good and evil, and all manner of opposing realities are to be found.5

The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the material world. This attachment of the spirit to the material world led to the banishment of the self and spirit of Adam from the realm of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the kingdom of Divine Unity to the world of human existence. When once the self and spirit of Adam entered the material world, He departed from the paradise of freedom and descended into the realm of bondage. He had abided in the heights of sanctity and absolute goodness, and set foot thereafter in the world of good and evil.


Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library
 

Ricktheheretic

"Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law"
I am in a religious study class and was asked to find out what Christians believe about the Fall of Adam and Eve.

What do you believe about Fall of Adam and Eve?
What do you think the results are from the Fall?
Why do you think the Fall part of God's plan?

Gnostic Christians who mixed early Christian beliefs with pagan Platonist and Hermetic beliefs saw the real fall as into matter. The Primal Man(a Platonic archetype or idea) descended into chaos(matter or illusion) from the Aeon above. The Bible tells of a creator god who creates Adam and Eve in earthly bodies and promises them eternal life if they don't eat from the tree of knowledge. In a particular Gnostic gospel the demiurge(evil creator) Yaldabaoth creates bodies out of the material of chaos and breathes into them the light that he stole from the divine being Sophia who fell into the chaos from above. The man and woman are ignorant like children and when a tree with a serpent on it appears in the garden Yaldabaoth made for them he tells them that if they eat it's fruit they will die. The tree is the Tree of Gnosis(knowledge)and the serpent is Sophia who bids the human couple to eat it's fruit. When they eat the fruit they become aware of the Aeon above and the Eternal Father who created the light that their souls come from. Yaldabaoth, enraged, like the Biblical creator says "I am a jealous god, there are no other gods but me." and forces the man and woman from the garden. He makes life miserable so that they will have to work hard to survive and forget the real god(the Eternal Father). Sometimes the Eternal Father has messengers or prophets. The chief prophet was Yeshua of Galilea who defied the Jewish religion of his people and taught that obedience to physical laws doesn't grant salvation, that real religion is spiritual and salvation means returning to the light created by the Eternal Father. Some people say the first Gnostic Christian was Marcion, a bishop of the early church who rejected the Old Testament and of the New Testament accepted only the Gospel of Luke and portions of the Pauline epistles. Marcion saw the world as a drama between two opposed gods, the material creator god of the Jews who demanded ritual obedience to "the law," and the god of Yeshua who is pure love and demands that people stay free from the flesh(desires for the material world) and the Jewish "law" that the creator god established to control peoples material desires. Marcion was a universalist who believed that all souls would eventually return to the "stranger god" who created the souls that came to inhabit material bodies. There are parallels between Marcion's and St. Paul's view on the Jewish "law" which was for material "fleshly" people and means nothing for those who are dead to the "flesh" and are reborn in Christ. There is also a similarity between what is in the gospels about the temptation of Christ and the material "kingdoms of the world" belonging not to god, but to the devil. At some point different beliefs got fused into what became Christian Gnosticism, which contains elements of the dualistic schools of thought known as Platonism and Hermeticism. One variety of Christian Gnosticism, Manicheaism(after the prophet Mani) includes beliefs from Buddhism and Zoroastrianism that present a dualistic worldview. The Gnosis Archive: Resources on Gnosticism and Gnostic Tradition Gnosticism Gnosticism - Wikipedia
 
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Ricktheheretic

"Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law"
Gnostic Christians who mixed early Christian beliefs with pagan Platonist and Hermetic beliefs saw the real fall as into matter. The Primal Man(a Platonic archetype or idea) descended into chaos(matter or illusion) from the Aeon above. The Bible tells of a creator god who creates Adam and Eve in earthly bodies and promises them eternal life if they don't eat from the tree of knowledge. In a particular Gnostic gospel the demiurge(evil creator) Yaldabaoth creates bodies out of the material of chaos and breathes into them the light that he stole from the divine being Sophia who fell into the chaos from above. The man and woman are ignorant like children and when a tree with a serpent on it appears in the garden Yaldabaoth made for them he tells them that if they eat it's fruit they will die. The tree is the Tree of Gnosis(knowledge)and the serpent is Sophia who bids the human couple to eat it's fruit. When they eat the fruit they become aware of the Aeon above and the Eternal Father who created the light that their souls come from. Yaldabaoth, enraged, like the Biblical creator says "I am a jealous god, there are no other gods but me." and forces the man and woman from the garden. He makes life miserable so that they will have to work hard to survive and forget the real god(the Eternal Father). Sometimes the Eternal Father has messengers or prophets. The chief prophet was Yeshua of Galilea who defied the Jewish religion of his people and taught that obedience to physical laws doesn't grant salvation, that real religion is spiritual and salvation means returning to the light created by the Eternal Father. Some people say the first Gnostic Christian was Marcion, a bishop of the early church who rejected the Old Testament and of the New Testament accepted only the Gospel of Luke and portions of the Pauline epistles. Marcion saw the world as a drama between two opposed gods, the material creator god of the Jews who demanded ritual obedience to "the law," and the god of Yeshua who is pure love and demands that people stay free from the flesh(desires for the material world) and the Jewish "law" that the creator god established to control peoples material desires. Marcion was a universalist who believed that all souls would eventually return to the "stranger god" who created the souls that came to inhabit material bodies. There are parallels between Marcion's and St. Paul's view on the Jewish "law" which was for material "fleshly" people and means nothing for those who are dead to the "flesh" and are reborn in Christ. There is also a similarity between what is in the gospels about the temptation of Christ and the material "kingdoms of the world" belonging not to god, but to the devil. At some point different beliefs got fused into what became Christian Gnosticism, which contains elements of the dualistic schools of thought known as Platonism and Hermeticism. One variety of Christian Gnosticism, Manicheaism(after the prophet Mani) includes beliefs from Buddhism and Zoroastrianism that present a dualistic worldview. The Gnosis Archive: Resources on Gnosticism and Gnostic Tradition Gnosticism Gnosticism - Wikipedia

I felt like I needed to include more to explain the Christian Gnostic view on the fall, that's why my post is so long. If anyone is interested in books Elaine Pagels wrote a good one titled The Gnostic Gospels, or just check Amazon.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
And if they ate from the Tree of Life instead than the rest of humanity would not have been born sinful.

why sinners are born into the world is very illogical. that God would create sinful creatures seems ludicrous.

fearfully and wonderfully made humans. that simply isn't true. we are created with great flaw and remain unrestrained and ungoverned.
 
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