Belief Systems

[Ellen Brown]

Sooda has gotten me interested in religious "prehistory", and I've read numerous articles and watched some very good YouTube videos, so far, back to the bronze age Sumerians. If I can find something I'll go back further than that. The ruins of one Sumerian city, Uruk is in Iraq, south of Bagdad.

According to the creators of this material, a belief system is one of the key traits that seems to govern the success of the civilization.

I've realized that no matter what you believe, if the system organizes the culture and governs the inhabitants, it may not matter who your God is. I've still got to ponder this. So, perhaps it simply does not matter if a belief system makes sense to me, I won't mention any, as long as it sets order in the community, that is what is important.

It doesn't matter if a system is so ridiculous that outsiders make fun of it.If the followers believe that appears to be all that is important, at least from an early historical point of view. It appears that the main purpose of religion is to calm the fearful and give them a sense of purpose.

 

[Desert Snake]

Hmmmm...

 

[Ellen Brown]

If two wacky organizations disagree on everything except that another religion is wrong, something is wrong.

Entity needs human for prophecy, entity needs humans for prophecy, the most important thing here, is that it is humans who are needed as puppets for prophecy, not the fact that some entity hiding in the shadows is making humans into puppets.

Hmmmm...

I dasn't mention any specific organizations I was thinking of. A flogging would surely follow.

 

[Desert Snake]

I think "organization" gets the idea across.

 

[Desert Snake]

PROPHECY IS FINE FOR PERSONAL Deities,

Not for non personal entities

 

[shunyadragon]

Sooda has gotten me interested in religious "prehistory", and I've read numerous articles and watched some very good YouTube videos, so far, back to the bronze age Sumerians. If I can find something I'll go back further than that. The ruins of one Sumerian city, Uruk is in Iraq, south of Bagdad.

According to the creators of this material, a belief system is one of the key traits that seems to govern the success of the civilization.

I've realized that no matter what you believe, if the system organizes the culture and governs the inhabitants, it may not matter who your God is. I've still got to ponder this. So, perhaps it simply does not matter if a belief system makes sense to me, I won't mention any, as long as it sets order in the community, that is what is important.

It doesn't matter if a system is so ridiculous that outsiders make fun of it.If the followers believe that appears to be all that is important, at least from an early historical point of view. It appears that the main purpose of religion is to calm the fearful and give them a sense of purpose.

This appears to be a very humanist perspective of religion.

 

[metis]

I've realized that no matter what you believe, if the system organizes the culture and governs the inhabitants, it may not matter who your God is. I've still got to ponder this. So, perhaps it simply does not matter if a belief system makes sense to me, I won't mention any, as long as it sets order in the community, that is what is important.

In anthropology, we refer to religion as a sort of "glue" that can help hold society together through common mores and folkways, plus it's considered to be one of the "five basic institutions" that all societies have and had have historically.

Also, there's the concept of what some call the "god gene" that biologically through our genes encourages us to go in that direction.

 

[pearl]

Also, there's the concept of what some call the "god gene" that biologically through our genes encourages us to go in that direction.

Some sense of a Wholly Other evident in the variety of creation myths.

 

[joe1776]

....
It doesn't matter if a system is so ridiculous that outsiders make fun of it.If the followers believe that appears to be all that is important, at least from an early historical point of view. It appears that the main purpose of religion is to calm the fearful and give them a sense of purpose.

So, are you saying that religion is the opium of the people?

 

[dingdao]

No TV is the opiate of the people. Religion was the social and political structure of most of civilization.

 

[Quintessence]

In understanding the role religions play in cultures, I think it's good to remember it isn't just a "belief" system. We tend to think about it this way in the West because belief is emphasized in one of our more dominant/influential religious traditions, but religion also always includes narratives (mythology) and practices (ritual). All those together help ground people and cultures. At heart, religion is about the search for truth and meaning. In that, it's not dissimilar to the sciences, though it is more open about its methods of inquiry. Once truths and meanings are found, they can become established as cannon and the heart of a culture. They help define who a people are, and what they do. Perhaps this is why in many respects, considering "religion" a separate thing from "culture" is unwise. It certainly was not understood in such an isolated fashion by our ancestors, at any rate.

I would say the intersection of different ways of life - different religions - does matter though. It matters because cross-cultural contact is something of an inevitability especially in today's world. I think it behooves us to understand the sacred stories of others, rather than to simply dismiss them because they are not our own. Not everyone has this mentality of curiosity, however, so it is to be expected that some conflicts arise.

 

[WalterTrull]

Sooda has gotten me interested in religious "prehistory", and I've read numerous articles and watched some very good YouTube videos, so far, back to the bronze age Sumerians. If I can find something I'll go back further than that. The ruins of one Sumerian city, Uruk is in Iraq, south of Bagdad.

According to the creators of this material, a belief system is one of the key traits that seems to govern the success of the civilization.

I've realized that no matter what you believe, if the system organizes the culture and governs the inhabitants, it may not matter who your God is. I've still got to ponder this. So, perhaps it simply does not matter if a belief system makes sense to me, I won't mention any, as long as it sets order in the community, that is what is important.

It doesn't matter if a system is so ridiculous that outsiders make fun of it.If the followers believe that appears to be all that is important, at least from an early historical point of view. It appears that the main purpose of religion is to calm the fearful and give them a sense of purpose.

I agree with you. Hey JC gave us the wine to calm us down. He also brought the bread which is a little more advanced.
Structured thought is how we walk. I have a hunch that even when the mist clears this might be true. Maybe.

 

[joe1776]

In anthropology, we refer to religion as a sort of "glue" that can help hold society together through common mores and folkways...

That doesn't make sense to me since religion's chief, undeniable effect has been to divide humanity into thousands of quarreling sects.

 

[David T]

Sooda has gotten me interested in religious "prehistory", and I've read numerous articles and watched some very good YouTube videos, so far, back to the bronze age Sumerians. If I can find something I'll go back further than that. The ruins of one Sumerian city, Uruk is in Iraq, south of Bagdad.

According to the creators of this material, a belief system is one of the key traits that seems to govern the success of the civilization.

I've realized that no matter what you believe, if the system organizes the culture and governs the inhabitants, it may not matter who your God is. I've still got to ponder this. So, perhaps it simply does not matter if a belief system makes sense to me, I won't mention any, as long as it sets order in the community, that is what is important.

It doesn't matter if a system is so ridiculous that outsiders make fun of it.If the followers believe that appears to be all that is important, at least from an early historical point of view. It appears that the main purpose of religion is to calm the fearful and give them a sense of purpose.

social organization requires a collective agreement regardless. In regards to Religion the primary and fundamental aspect in western culture has been the continual reinforcement of literacy as the focus. Christianity is extremely literate, to such a degree there is no reality for it outside it's literary confine. That's pretty normal today, regardless of being a "believer" or not. in fact really the debates of Science vs religion are really narrative arguments by individuals fairly virtualized by literacy and culture. It's nonsense but hey that's normal folks for ya daydreaming and calling it reality.

 

[dianaiad]

In anthropology, we refer to religion as a sort of "glue" that can help hold society together through common mores and folkways, plus it's considered to be one of the "five basic institutions" that all societies have and had have historically.

Also, there's the concept of what some call the "god gene" that biologically through our genes encourages us to go in that direction.

Which raises the question; if this is so, is it a good idea to advocate getting rid of it?

......and even if the advocates of 'getting rid of religion' succeeded, would that success be temporary? We already know, from fairly recent history, that governments have tried eliminating theism. Those governments have been, without exception, considerably more murderous than any theocracy one can think of. Not that 'theocracies' are NOT, generally, problematic; they usually are. However, anti-theist governments have out killed all of 'em.

....and only one of those anti-theist governments still exist as such...(Albania, and look what's happening to THEM right now), with lifespans of less than fifty years. So...CAN religion be eliminated?

If it is so basic and important a 'glue,' then...what is it about religion that makes it so important? I don't buy the 'calm the fearful' thing, considering the number of religions that spout the damnation and hellfire for misbehavior mantra. Would the expert anthropologists have an answer that wouldn't make the average theist cringe?

I mean....something that isn't a complete dismissal and insult to theists, placing them all somewhere just south of the 'missing link' in terms of the evolution of human intelligence?

 

[metis]

Some sense of a Wholly Other evident in the variety of creation myths.

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[GoodbyeDave]

That doesn't make sense to me since religion's chief, undeniable effect has been to divide humanity into thousands of quarreling sects.

Like so many atheists, you confuse Christianity and religion. Before people started inventing new religions and trying to enforce them, no-one quarreled about religion.

 

[metis]

That doesn't make sense to me since religion's chief, undeniable effect has been to divide humanity into thousands of quarreling sects.

That is a side-effect that can all too often happen, but in more cases than not the effect is the opposite.

For example, in Latin America, which is predominantly Catholic as you well know, the Church has been instrumental in preventing wars through the actions of the pope and bishops. However, if the leadership of the country is more secular and/or anti-Catholic, obviously that usually won't work.

But we also have to remember than if an area has exclusively secular leaders, then there is no such "glue" that can help mitigate such conflict. IOW, one has to put this religious "glue" in comparison of states whereas no such "glue" exists. And like real glue, perfection is not to be had.

 

[metis]

Which raises the question; if this is so, is it a good idea to advocate getting rid of it?

......and even if the advocates of 'getting rid of religion' succeeded, would that success be temporary? We already know, from fairly recent history, that governments have tried eliminating theism. Those governments have been, without exception, considerably more murderous than any theocracy one can think of. Not that 'theocracies' are NOT, generally, problematic; they usually are. However, anti-theist governments have out killed all of 'em.

....and only one of those anti-theist governments still exist as such...(Albania, and look what's happening to THEM right now), with lifespans of less than fifty years. So...CAN religion be eliminated?

If it is so basic and important a 'glue,' then...what is it about religion that makes it so important? I don't buy the 'calm the fearful' thing, considering the number of religions that spout the damnation and hellfire for misbehavior mantra. Would the expert anthropologists have an answer that wouldn't make the average theist cringe?

I mean....something that isn't a complete dismissal and insult to theists, placing them all somewhere just south of the 'missing link' in terms of the evolution of human intelligence?

See my post #18.

 

[joe1776]

Like so many atheists, you confuse Christianity and religion. Before people started inventing new religions and trying to enforce them, no-one quarreled about religion.

Somehow, you've assumed I'm an atheist but that's okay, some of my best friends are atheists.

I think the idea that there was a time in human history when no one quarreled about religion is a figment of your imagination. That is unless you want to go back to a time when the first humans populated the earth.