Me neither.....
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Belief of Jehovah's Witnesses?
- Thread starter wackybasith
- Start date
Me neither.....
IsmailaGodHasHeard
Well-Known Member
I am sorry that you feel that way. Can you point to the Scriptures that you think enforce this belief?
I am glad I feel the way I do! I'm almost 52 years old, I need to get it right pretty quickly!!
Which belief would you like me to address first?
IsmailaGodHasHeard
Well-Known Member
I am glad I feel the way I do! I'm almost 52 years old, I need to get it right pretty quickly!!
Which belief would you like me to address first?
The belief that Jesus is not God. I personally believe that He is God, but I am curious about your belief.
From Luke 14:
23 In answer Jesus said to him: If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make our abode with him. 24 He that does not love me does not observe my words; and the word that YOU are hearing is not mine, but belongs to the Father who sent me.
25 While remaining with YOU I have spoken these things to YOU. 26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU. 27 I leave YOU peace, I give YOU my peace. I do not give it to YOU the way that the world gives it. Do not let YOUR hearts be troubled nor let them shrink for fear. 28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. 29 So now I have told YOU before it occurs, in order that, when it does occur, YOU may believe. 30 I shall not speak much with YOU anymore, for the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me, 31 but, in order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has given me commandment [to do], so I am doing. Get up, let us go from here.
IsmailaGodHasHeard
Well-Known Member
What about this verse?
John 8:58 NASB - Jesus said to them Truly truly I say to - Bible Gateway
John 8:58 NASB - Jesus said to them Truly truly I say to - Bible Gateway
Go back a few sentences from what your link quotes:
54 Jesus answered: If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, he who YOU say is YOUR God; 55 and yet YOU have not known him. But I know him. And if I said I do not know him I should be like YOU, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.
IsmailaGodHasHeard
Well-Known Member
I guess we can agree to disagree. I am sorry. I am just not feeling well. Can we continue tomorrow?
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Sure! I am sorry you're feeling poorly. Drink plenty of water!:yes:
What Scriptures do you use to prove Jesus is God?
Isn't Revelation [3v14 B] clear Jesus is the 'beginning of the creation' by God?
There is No Scripture that says God was created, but rather God is Creator.
-Psalm 90v2
Are the 144,000 virgins?
Revelation 14:1-20
1 And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins.
Revelation 14:1-20
1 And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins.
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
in the hebrew scriptures, when Isreal became involved with false religion, God called them Adulterers and spoke of them as having illicit relations with a 'foreign god'.
Eze 23:5 “And O‧ho′lah began to prostitute herself, while subject to me, and kept lusting after those passionately loving her, after the As‧syr′i‧ans, ...8 And her prostitutions [carried] from Egypt she did not leave, for with her they had lain down in her youth, and they were the ones that pressed the bosoms of her virginity and they kept pouring out their immoral intercourse upon her.
James 4:4 shows a similar attitude regarding loyalty to God. He likens those who become friends of the world, as adulteresses:
"Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God"
So we take the verse in revelation to mean that the 144,000 chosen ones did not become involved in false religious practices, they kept themselves spiritually clean and undefiled, in a spiritual sense they are virgins.
And we know it is not speaking about literal virginity because some of Christs Apostles were married men with families. It was his chosen apostles who were the first ones selected to be among the group who would rule with Christ in heaven... and that is what the 144,000 are...the one who will rule as kings and priests with Christ. So it cannot be speaking about literal virginity.
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Of course Jesus existed before Abraham was because Jesus was God's heavenly only-begotten heavenly Son before all other creation.
What does Revelation 3v14 say ?________
In order for God to send Jesus to earth, wouldn't Jesus already have to be in existence ?
Of course, not in existence as flesh and blood [physical] on earth, but having a pre-human existence in the heavenly realm before God sent Jesus to earth.
I'm having trouble with this.
4 These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins.
That John threw in the "with women" makes it hard to believe it was figurative and not literal.
If one is not a virgin, that does not mean he is an adulterer.
Why should we take the "144,000" literally and not the "virgin" part literally?
I appreciate your input.
Who is part of the first or earlier resurrection of Revelation 20v6; 5 vs9,10; and 14v4 ?
Since they are resurrected first or earlier than others, then like the resurrected Jesus they have direct communication with Jesus.
The rest of Jesus 'brothers' [Matthew 25v40] that are still alive on earth at the time of Matthew [25v31] will not have that direct communication, so to speak, before Jesus messianic [1000-year] reign over earthly subjects. Psalm 72v8.
Would you agree, according to Scripture, there is such a thing as spiritual virginity?
Paul was concerned about the spiritual purity of the congregation being pure like a chaste virgin. -2nd Cor. 11vs2-6
The 'bride of Christ' is made up of both male and female. -Gal. 3v28
So, we are not talking about a literal bride.
But the 'bride' maintains her chasteness by being unspotted by the world.
-James 1v27 B
So, Jesus, so to speak, is the Husband.
-Eph 5 vs22,23; Rev 19v7; 21v2
Think too of the ancient nation of Israel who had God as husband.
Not a literal husband of course.- Jeremiah 3v14; Isaiah 54v5
Or that heavenly Jerusalem above is called 'mother' -Gal 4vs6,7,26
So, God would be husband to that heavenly Jerusalem.
Please notice the 'sealed' number [Rev 7vs3-8] as history written in advance.
Then, in verse 9 please notice an 'un-sealed' number.
A number which No one was able to number.
Unlike those of verses 3 to 8, those of verse 14 are an un-numbered amount of people, or a can't be counted or numbered amount of people.
Just like the living humble sheep-like people of Matthew 25v32 is an unknown number judged on how they have treated Jesus 'brothers' of verse 40.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
well ask yourself who the 144,000 are. They are the ones who are to rule with Christ in heaven. Jesus apostles were the first to be invited to become co-rulers in the heavenly kingdom..
Luke 22:28 However, YOU are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel
Some of the apostles were married men, so this is the evidence that the ones who will rule with Christ in heaven do not have to be 'literal' virgins.
.. and besides this, the 144,000 included christian women...they too were annointed with holy spirit on the day of Pentecost as recorded in the book of Acts chapter 2.
But these ones do have to be spiritually clean and pure from Gods standpoint. We have it from the apostle Paul that christians have to be 'chaste'...a term usually applied to a persons virginity:
2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over YOU with a godly jealousy, for I personally promised YOU in marriage to one husband that I might present YOU as a chaste virgin to the Christ
You see the above verse shows that 'symbolically' the christian congregation of annointed ones is to be presented as a 'bride' to Christ. They are a 'bride' because as Paul says at Ephesians 5:23 'because a husband is head of his wife as the Christ also is head of the congregation'
The reason why we can take the number literally as 144,000 is because Jesus said that he would make a covenant for a kingdom with a 'little flock'
Luke 12:32 Have no fear, little flock, because YOUR Father has approved of giving YOU the kingdom
He showed too that there were 'others' who were different from the 'little flock'
John 10:16 And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd
So when we get to revelation and read that there is 144,000 who have been brought from the earth into the kingdom, it reminds us of Jesus words to his apostles:
Luke 22:; 29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
When John saw that group in vision, he heard the number of them as 144,000
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel
But when John saw the 'other sheep' he could not number them
Rev 7:9 After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.
I hope that is clear
Uhhhh.... is that a yes or a no?
According to Ephesians [5v23] Christ is the head of the Christian congregation.
So, from heaven, Christ directs through God's holy spirit the congregation.
-1st Cor 2v16; 11v3 B.
Jesus living 'brothers' [Matt 25v40] are the remaining faithful servant of verses 21 and 23.
Their job is to give 'meat in due season' [KJV Matt 24v45] or spiritual food at the proper time.- Jeremiah 3v15.
The Messianic time frame for Jesus arrival is calculated because of the 70 weeks of years of Daniel [9vs24-27;Luke 3v15], and Jesus taking further or future action at Daniel [4vs1-17]. Verse 16 mentions: seven times [7X]
That 7 X counting began in 607 after the last king Zedekiah was dethroned.
So counting 2,520 years from 607 BCE adds up to 1914 AD/CE [common era]
Just as Psalm [110vs1,2] says Jesus would rule in the midst of his enemies.
So, Jesus would first have to subdue in the midst of his enemies.
-Psalm 2v2