Belief in God but not Jesus?

[DTrent]

Please don't spout out such ignorance. The perverted idea of the gods of Christianity and the G-d of the Jews are not the same. Maybe from yer perspective they are, but to anyone with a minimal amount of knowledge of Judaism wouldn't say that.

Now addressing Psalm 83:18, יֵבֹשׁוּ וְיִבָּהֲלוּ עֲדֵי-עַד; וְיַחְפְּרוּ וְיֹאבֵדוּ
G-d's name is no where in there, I don't know what horrendous translation you're reading, but it's not there.

Why would I want to encourage people to waste time w/ what is seen by me as the NT fairy tale?

"Spouting out such ignorance???" "NT fairy tale"???
Please don't attack me. I do not appreciate it. These forums are to be used respectfully.

Back to the issue at hand - The translations I've read are the American Standard Version, King James of 1611 and The Bible in Living English. They all say that God's name is JEHOVAH. There are MANY more that say the same Name. That is His name in English. In Hebrew, of course is YHWH - YAWEH but I'm sure you already knew that.
The most popular way of pronouncing it is JEHOVAH.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Uh..how is that?? Since the Hindus, etc. do not worship the God of the Bible and have many gods, HOW could the God of the Bible be the same god as of those other faiths?? The God of the Bible doesn't tolerate interfaith. Never has. Never will. have you perhaps read omething different?

Very much so! As a Baha'i, I follow what I see as the latest chapter of the one evolving faith, the Faith of God! And it makes these equivalances quite clear.

First off, Hinduism as originally revealed teaches a single God. It's later human corruptions of the original religion that have yielded the current polytheistic view. And the name of the One God in Hinduism is Brahman (not to be confused with Brahma).

As to the Bible, it clearlyl prophesies the coming of further Divine Revelation, as Jesus Himself emphasized.

Further, the s criptures of virtually EVERY ONE of the great religions contain an only-way statement similar to the "but by Me" statement in the New Testament. And this is no problem whatever if one simply realizes that this is the Holy Spirit speaking (Who delivers the various Divine Revelations), not any individual person. Jesus also drew a clear distinction between Himself and God as you can also read in the Bible.

The scriptures I follow explain all this as follows:

"There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you."
(_The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah_, page 114)

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

Oh--and by the way, DTrent, as a Baha'i, yes, I very much accept and believe in both Jesus and the Bible!

Regards,

Bruce

 

[jewscout]

I am really sorry. I didn't mean to come across as saying that Judaism is the default of Christianity, although when I reread my original question I realize that's how it came across to me.

I am deeply sorry if any of you got the impression that I thought Judaism is somehow less of a religion than Christianity or any other. I think they all have their merits as well as their shortcomings.

If I have offended you or your beliefs, please accept my heartfelt apologies.

no offense taken cfer i just think it's important to clarify that Judaism is more than just Christianity w/o Jesus...

 

[Deut 13:1]

"Spouting out such ignorance???" "NT fairy tale"???
Please don't attack me. I do not appreciate it. These forums are to be used respectfully.

These forums are also to be used for people capable of coherent thought, which includes the basic ability to read.

יֵבֹשׁוּ וְיִבָּהֲלוּ עֲדֵי-עַד; וְיַחְפְּרוּ וְיֹאבֵדוּ

That's the passage you quoted, no where is YHWH... Now if you didn't mean Psalm 83:18, then we can talk, until then I stand by what I said. Psalm 83:18's accurate translation.

The JPS translates it as:
18 Let them be ashamed and affrighted for ever; yea, let them be abashed and perish;
18. Let them be ashamed and terrified forever; let them be disgraced and perish.

As I said, I don't know what you're reading, but it isn't Psalm 83:18 and your insistance that it is, is comical.

Back to the issue at hand - The translations I've read are the American Standard Version, King James of 1611 and The Bible in Living English. They all say that God's name is JEHOVAH. There are MANY more that say the same Name. That is His name in English. In Hebrew, of course is YHWH - YAWEH but I'm sure you already knew that.
The most popular way of pronouncing it is JEHOVAH.

I'm well aware of it.

 

[DTrent]

Oh--and by the way, DTrent, as a Baha'i, yes, I very much accept and believe in both Jesus and the Bible!

Regards,

Bruce

Seems confusing...If 'all the great religions of the world are divine in origin and their basic principles are in harmony, but they differ only in the NONESSENTIAL aspects of their doctrines', as the Baha'i believe then HOW can there be a unified brotherhood like Jesus taught? As a believer in Jesus Christ and the Bible, as you are, I can't understand how you'd be able to reconcile this type of thought.

From what the Bible teaches, (one true faith and only one acceptable way to worship the true God), brotherhood comes from a unified belief. According to 2Cor.6:14-18, it is possible to become "unevenly yoked" and the only way to be accepted by God is to "separate yourselves" and "get out from among them". A unified brotherhood and unified belief system makes more sense to me.
But alas, To each his own...

Peace -

 

[DTrent]

These forums are also to be used for people capable of coherent thought, which includes the basic ability to read.

יֵבֹשׁוּ וְיִבָּהֲלוּ עֲדֵי-עַד; וְיַחְפְּרוּ וְיֹאבֵדוּ

That's the passage you quoted, no where is YHWH... Now if you didn't mean Psalm 83:18, then we can talk, until then I stand by what I said. Psalm 83:18's accurate translation.

The JPS translates it as:
18 Let them be ashamed and affrighted for ever; yea, let them be abashed and perish;
18. Let them be ashamed and terrified forever; let them be disgraced and perish.

As I said, I don't know what you're reading, but it isn't Psalm 83:18 and your insistance that it is, is comical.
I'm well aware of it.

You insult me right out of the gate and then you expect a discussion with me?!??
I think not...I gave you a chance to come clean, redeem yourself (as the saying goes) and show some humility and respect. Obviously, you don't want to. Knockout
That's your decision but I don't need to sweat you. This will be my last post to you and I don' t think anyone here would blame me for it being so...

I posted what Psalm 83:18 says in the translations I used. If you don't "believe me", you can check them yourself. I do not know what the JPS is.
I know that the Catholic Douay Bible is one-off in their Psalms and I rarely use it anyway. I rarely use ANY Bible that speaks in Olde English since it is harder to grasp and people don't talk that way today.
If you want to look at Exodus 6:3 for God's personal name, it's there also. KJV, ASV, LVE and many more all have it there in either the form JEHOVAH or Yahweh. Since you are "well aware of it" then you know His personal name.

 

[jewscout]

In Hebrew, of course is YHWH - YAWEH but I'm sure you already knew that.

ummm i think a "vav" is pronounced as a "V"

but you are right...that is the way many christians pronounce the YHVH

but no one knows how it is truely pronounced anymore...not to my knowledge anyways.

 

[jewscout]

I do not know what the JPS is.

Jewish Publication Society.

actually i posted on here an interesting history on how the word Jehovah came to be and if i can track it down i'll link it on here...

ultimately it seems that the Catholic church took the YHVH and used the vowels from the word "Adonai" making it YaHoVah

if i can find the link i'll post it.

 

[DTrent]

Jewish Publication Society.

actually i posted on here an interesting history on how the word Jehovah came to be and if i can track it down i'll link it on here...

ultimately it seems that the Catholic church took the YHVH and used the vowels from the word "Adonai" making it YaHoVah

if i can find the link i'll post it.

Thank you for telling me what JPS means. (Jewish Pub. Society)
And yes, you're right about the Catholic Church taking God's personal name and inserting "adonai" instead, which only means "Lord". His personal name means so much more than just a title. I know the REAL pronunciation has been lost thru the yrs but what's impt is to use what's most popular. For instance, Yeshua? or Jesus? English form or Hebrew form? What's most popular is Jesus. (Just an example but I think you know what/how I mean it, yes?)

 

[Master Vigil]

You could always be a Vigil.

Ok seriously... When I read your first post, it reminded me of the religion of "goodness." Christians are a part of it, jews, taoists, buddhists, uu's, shamans, muslims, baha'i's, etc... You don't agree with every thing in any one of those religions? Doesn't mean you can't achieve union with the divine, in this life or the next. As long as you follow the religion of goodness, all will be well.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Seems confusing...If 'all the great religions of the world are divine in origin and their basic principles are in harmony, but they differ only in the NONESSENTIAL aspects of their doctrines', as the Baha'i believe then HOW can there be a unified brotherhood like Jesus taught? As a believer in Jesus Christ and the Bible, as you are, I can't understand how you'd be able to reconcile this type of thought.

Very simple.

Because as we Baha'is see it, in this Day, unity (of God, humanity, and religions) is the central emphasis of the Faith of God!

Older social teachings have been superceded, IOV, by new ones all specifically designed (and God-sent) to foster and promote this unified brotherhood.

You can read the details at the www.reference.bahai.org website, among others. You might find Baha'u'llah's "Book of Certitude" (aka "Kitab-i-Iqan") and 'Abdu'l-Baha's "Some Answered Questions" of particular interest.

Peace, and good hunting!

Bruce

 

[JonM]

ummm i think a "vav" is pronounced as a "V"

Not always. It can also be a vowel with an "oh" or "ooo" sound. The fact is that the pronunciation of the word ’יהוה' is in contention because Jews don't do it. It's a sin. We say Adonai, אדני,
or "my Lord" (though technically, that's the plural form. It's, you know, a God thing), in prayer, and just Hashem, literally "the name," colloquially, in order to avoid it. That's why many Jews write G-d instead of God when writing in English, but I never really liked that one.

 

[salam]

[The religion of Islam is the acceptance of and obedience to the teachings of God which He revealed to His last prophet, Muhammad –peace be upon Him-

Some Basic Islamic Beliefs​

1) Belief in God:
Muslims believe in one, unique, incomparable God, Who has no son nor partner, and that none has the right to be worshipped but Him alone. He is the true God, and every other deity is false. He has the most magnificent names and sublime perfect attributes. No one shares His divinity, nor His attributes. In the Quran, God describes Himself:

{ Say, “He is God, the One. God, to Whom the creatures turn for their needs. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none like Him.” } (Quran, 112:1-4)



No one has the right to be invoked, supplicated, prayed to, or shown any act of worship, but God alone.
God alone is the Almighty, the Creator, the Sovereign, and the Sustainer of everything in the whole universe. He manages all affairs. He stands in need of none of His creatures, and all His creatures depend on Him for all that they need. He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing, and the All-Knowing. In a perfect manner, His knowledge encompasses all things, the open and the secret, and the public and the private. He knows what has happened, what will happen, and how it will happen. No affair occurs in the whole world except by His will. Whatever He wills is, and whatever He does not will is not and will never be. His will is above the will of all the creatures. He has power over all things, and He is able to do everything. He is the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful, and the Most Beneficent. In one of the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad –peace be upon Him-, we are told that God is more merciful to His creatures than a mother to her child. God is far removed from injustice and tyranny. He is All-Wise in all of His actions and decrees. If someone wants something from God, he or she can ask God directly without asking anyone else to intercede with God for him or her.
God is not Jesus, and Jesus is not God. Even Jesus himself rejected this. God has said in the Quran:
{ Indeed, they have disbelieved who have said, “God is the Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary.” The Messiah said, “Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever associates partners in worship with God, then God has forbidden Paradise for him, and his home is the Fire (Hell). For the wrongdoers, there will be no helpers.” } (Quran, 5:72) -The wrongdoers include the polytheists.-
God is not a trinity. God has said in the Quran:{ Indeed, they disbelieve who say, “God is the third of three (in a trinity),” when there is no god but one God. If they desist not from what they say, truly, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them. Would they not rather repent to God and ask His forgiveness? For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a messenger... } (Quran, 5:73-75)
Islam rejects that God rested on the seventh day of the creation, that He wrestled with one of His angels, that He is an envious plotter against mankind, or that He is incarnate in any human being. Islam also rejects the attribution of any human form to God. All of these are considered blasphemous. God is the Exalted. He is far removed from every imperfection. He never becomes weary. He does not become drowsy nor does he sleep.
The Arabic word Allah means God (the one and only true God who created the whole universe). This word Allah is a name for God, which is used by Arabic speakers, both Arab Muslims and Arab Christians. This word cannot be used to designate anything other than the one true God. The Arabic word Allah occurs in the Quran about 2700 times. In Aramaic, a language related closely to Arabic and the language that Jesus habitually spoke(NIV Compact Dictionary of the Bible, Douglas, p. 42.), God is also referred to as Allah.
2) Belief in the Angels:
Muslims believe in the existence of the angels and that they are honored creatures. The angels worship God alone, obey Him, and act only by His command. Among the angels is Gabriel, who brought down the Quran to Muhammad –peace be upon Him-.
3) Belief in God’s Revealed Books:
Muslims believe that God revealed books to His messengers as proof for mankind and as guidance for them. Among these books is the Quran, which God revealed to the Prophet Muhammad –peace be upon Him-. God has guaranteed the Quran’s protection from any corruption or distortion. God has said:
{ Indeed, We have sent down the Quran, and surely We will guard it (from corruption). } (Quran, 15:9)
4) Belief in the Prophets and Messengers of God:
Muslims believe in the prophets and messengers of God, starting with Adam, including Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Jesus (peace be upon them). But God’s final message to man, a reconfirmation of the eternal message, was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad –peace be upon Him-. Muslims believe that Muhammad-peace be upon Him- is the last prophet sent by God, as God has said:
{ Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but he is the Messenger of God and the last of the prophets... } (Quran, 33:40)
Muslims believe that all the prophets and messengers were created human beings who had none of the divine qualities of God.
5) Belief in the Day of Judgment:
Muslims believe in the Day of Judgment (the Day of Resurrection) when all people will be resurrected for God’s judgment according to their beliefs and deeds.
6) Belief in Al-Qadar:
Muslims believe in Al-Qadar, which is Divine Predestination, but this belief in Divine Predestination does not mean that human beings do not have freewill. Rather, Muslims believe that God has given human beings freewill. This means that they can choose right or wrong and that they are responsible for their choices.
The belief in Divine Predestination includes belief in four things: 1) God knows everything. He knows what has happened and what will happen. 2) God has recorded all that has happened and all that will happen. 3) Whatever God wills to happen happens, and whatever He wills not to happen does not happen. 4) God is the Creator of everything.]

 

[soma]

The Bible says,
"One God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all....." Ephesians 4:6 NRSV
"There is only one God." EPHESIANS 4:6 NLT
"The lord our God, the Lord is one!" Deuteronomy 6:4 NKJV
"For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things."Romans 11:36 BBE

 

[whirlingmerc]

God without Jesus would be a bit more like the Baal.... power without mercy and compasison

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How would you classify a person who has a belief in God, but not necessarily in Jesus? Or, that there was a person named Jesus who taught about God, but not necessarily that Jesus was the savior?

Would you classify that as Jewish?

I ask because this is kind of where I feel I am leaning. I believe in a kind, gentle, and loving God. I believe there was a man named Jesus who was a great leader and teacher of peace and God, and that he was actually crucified. But I don't know if I believe in the Resurrection. I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm just saying I don't know.

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but I know people of the Jewish faith believe Jesus was not the savior, also. But it is also my understanding that the Jewish God is the one of the Old Testament -- the vengeful, wrathful, jealous God. That's not how I picture Him.

Which leads me to my problem. I don't know where/how to worship. I can't really go to any Christian church, because Christianity is based off the teachings of Jesus, and they believe Jesus was resurrected.

I wouldn't consider myself Jewish because I don't believe that God is vengeful and that strict, either.

Anyone have any thoughts?

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with any incorrect knowledge on the subjects above.

In my opinion, you don't sound like you are a UU. I would go to a local synague (or call one) and talk with them. I know Catholic priests take time out to talk to anyone coming to Christ especially if they are considering Catholicism. I'd call and see if that is the same with the Jewish faith.

Also, there are hundreds of faiths that believe in god without Jesus. However, I think you are leaning towards the Abrahamics. I haven't read all your posts. I'd think a bit more about what you believe would help get a feeling of what you are looking for. As for the spiritual (rather than research) nature of it. It all starts with you. Do you want to believe in Jesus and can't because of his association with the resurrection? Not all christian denominations believe the same way about the resurrection and not all denominations put more emphasis on Christ rather than his Father.

I'd explore more in that area. I'd say a bit more Islam, though, now that I think of it too. I could be wrong and I think Muslims see Christ more kindly in relations to doctrine and their faith than Jews (on doctrinal level).

 

[Neo Deist]

Become a deist and never look back.

Deism: the belief in God based on your observations of the world around you.

From there, believing in Jesus as a teacher of morality, who was crucified by order of Pilate, is fine and dandy. There is no deist church, deist bible, or deist priestly hierarchy. It is a very personal "religion" that relies on your intelligence and ability to think for yourself. Ask questions, study theology and history, and use your God given ability to reason.

If you are looking for a church to go to as a deist, UU is pretty open.

 

[syo]

I think you can study religions visit temples of various religions and choose what feels right.

 

[JesusBeliever]

How would you classify a person who has a belief in God, but not necessarily in Jesus? Or, that there was a person named Jesus who taught about God, but not necessarily that Jesus was the savior?

Would you classify that as Jewish?

I ask because this is kind of where I feel I am leaning. I believe in a kind, gentle, and loving God. I believe there was a man named Jesus who was a great leader and teacher of peace and God, and that he was actually crucified. But I don't know if I believe in the Resurrection. I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm just saying I don't know.

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but I know people of the Jewish faith believe Jesus was not the savior, also. But it is also my understanding that the Jewish God is the one of the Old Testament -- the vengeful, wrathful, jealous God. That's not how I picture Him.

Which leads me to my problem. I don't know where/how to worship. I can't really go to any Christian church, because Christianity is based off the teachings of Jesus, and they believe Jesus was resurrected.

I wouldn't consider myself Jewish because I don't believe that God is vengeful and that strict, either.

Anyone have any thoughts?

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with any incorrect knowledge on the subjects above.

Hi there, Christians also believe in the God of the Old Testament, except they understand from Jesus' teachings that God is kind, loving and gentle. I admit that it's definitely harder to see these qualities in the Old Testament but they are there. The New Testament describes the Old Testament as a shadow of good things to come. I understand this to mean that all the stories of the Old Testament have a deeper meaning, and predict the future of humanity, including the resurrection. According to the Gospels, some jews believed in the resurrection (the sect of Pharisees) and some didn't (the sect of the Sadducees). Whether this is still the case today I'm not sure.