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Belief and lack of belief

Discussion in 'Atheism DIR' started by Jaiket, Nov 15, 2021.

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  1. I simply lack belief in gods

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. I believe that there are no gods

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  3. I have some other ideas

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  1. Jaiket

    Jaiket Well-Known Member
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    The atheism definition wars have been raging again. I don't have the energy for getting involved so much but I am a little curious about how atheists see their atheism.

    For the record, I really only consider atheism that comes from thinking about the case for God and rejecting it to be atheism. This is something of an aesthetic preference for me and if you call yourself an atheist and have mananged to simply not acquire a belief either way then by all means have at it. It's not my place to tell you what words you can use, I can only tell you how I use them.

    So for me, I believe the case for God is unconvincing. I believe that God very probably there are no gods. Or put slightly different, I believe that it is very unlikely that anything like any of the god ideas I've been exposed to exist independently of the minds that conveyed them to me.

    How about you?

    Maybe the distinction is misleading. Maybe everybody is sick talking about it. But given how important it seems to some, I was wondering how many people fall into each camp.
     
  2. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    I voted for simple lack of belief. I come down on the "can't be known" side.
     
  3. Kfox

    Kfox Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of religious people make the mistake of assuming because religion is important in their lives, that atheism must just as important in our lives; it is not. Theism affects the theist life concerning the decisions they make, their morality, their entire world view; atheism is nothing to me, it is just a label theists think about but I don't unless asked. religion is not an issue for me thus neither is atheism
     
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  4. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    I vary from ignoticism to apatheism.

    A lot of times, it seems like the question of the existence of God(s) is simply not meaningful. It isn't simply that the existence hasn't been shown, it is that it seems to not make any sense at all.

    Other times, I simply don't care: it would not affect how I live my life either way.
     
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  5. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I think you're asking the wrong questions here.

    It isn't about what traits are often found in atheists; it's about what traits make a person an atheist.

    Every atheist on Earth has a pancreas. Every atheist who's going to respond to a poll on RF reads English and has internet access. These facts, in and of themselves, don't mean that "having a pancreas" or "internet access" is part of what makes a person an atheist.

    I'm curious as to why you, as an atheist, have decided to give God-with-a-capital-G special status above all other gods.

    I mean, it's humanly impossible for one person to even know the names of every god ever believed in by humanity, to say nothing of actually rejecting them. Every atheist merely lacks belief in the gods they've never even heard of (which is the vast majority of gods), so it sure seems to me that merely lacking belief in gods is enough.

    OTOH, you think that to be an atheist, a person needs to think about the case for God and reject it. Not the case for Finvarra, Not the case for Pomona, not the case for Aditi... God-with-a-capital-G alone.

    Why? Why - besides the influence of many Christians (and maybe Muslims) drilling into you that their religion has special importance - have you chosen to give this particular god special status?
     
  6. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    My personal positions, BTW:

    - I have no opinion at all about any gods I've never heard of (i.e. the vast majority of gods).

    - there are some gods I reject as impossible (e.g. internally contradictory ones).

    - there are many gods that I neither reject nor accept because I've never seen them expressed in a way that's coherent enough that I could evaluate them as true or false.

    - there are some I reject as improbable, implausible, or absurd.

    - I think the term "god" has no coherent, universal definition, so it would be impossible to reject the existence of all gods in one fell swoop.
     
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  7. Jaiket

    Jaiket Well-Known Member
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    I guess that's the one I reject most. :p

    What you've said below is possible:

    In the sense that the chap in the bible is the one I hear about most I probably do assign some extra significance. But I think there is a general idea captured by "God" - intelligent, creator agent - that is present in a lot of god ideas that I come across. The capital 'G' is sometimes more of a convention that I guess doesn't bother me enough to always avoid it.

    In any case, I reject the case for all the gods, insofar as there is a universal captured by the word "gods". I don't think the best account of the world involves deities.

    There are some expressions that I've come across that I don't mind so much. There are pantheistic and Hindu expressions of divinity or whatever that I find quite attractive (I'm not sure that God is entirely meaningful in that context - is God here an entity that can act and know and want?).

    Does that answer your question?
     
  8. Kfox

    Kfox Well-Known Member

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    Define "God", and what does it mean to "believe in"?
     
  9. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Generally, I simply lack belief, but at a more metaphysical level, it gets more complicated. I think a God or gods exist in the imagination of the beholder -- but I think horses and sewing machines are imaginary, as well.
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I don't believe any god/deity exist regardless the religion. Other definitions of god I understand but to label some experiences god throws things off.
     
  11. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I stick with the entomology. One without God's.

    I find no need to recognize a person's imagination as anything other than a 'god' that lives exclusively inside one's creative head.
     
  12. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    You are aware what entomology is, right? ;) :D Now I know what word you are referring to, but it was to funny to pas up on.
     
  13. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Yep your right. Lol. I think most got the gist in spite of my folly. *grin*
     
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  14. Jaiket

    Jaiket Well-Known Member
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    By "God" I mean an intelligent, creator agent that is resonsible for the world wholly or in part, "believe in" stands for the acceptance of a given proposition.

    Did you have something to add?
     
  15. Jaiket

    Jaiket Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure what you mean here, could you clarify a wee bit?
     
  16. Kfox

    Kfox Well-Known Member

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    Yes I chose I have other ideas. I recognize what someone might choose to call God may exist, but because I don’t accept the proposition given, I don’t call it God, I call it something else. Therefore I am atheist even if their God exists. However I believe the vast majority of God claims are about beings that don’t exist.
     
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