being saved

[Sabio]

isis-astoroth brought-up in another thread about being saved and I was curious how christians on here feel about it.

If you you are unable to "save" another from accepting Christ as their savior have:

1) you failed as a christian
2) they failed as a human being
3) damned themselves to hell
4) destroyed their relationship with God for all eternity
5) broken their relationship with christians on earth?

1. No, we are only called to deliver the good news of salvation, we don't save anyone, Jesus does.
2. No, they made a bad choice through exercising their free will
3. Yes, if they do not put their faith in Jesus at some later date
4. No, God provides many chances to be saved before one dies
5. No

Sabio

 

[michel]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Sabio again.​

​

I agree on all counts; heck! where's the fun in agreeing?:biglaugh:​

 

[blueman]

If you believe that the Bible is the true Word of God, the end results are pretty clear. Hebrews 10:29-31 states: Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord. And again the Lord will judge His people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

If you think the Bible, God and Jesus is the biggest farce in history, you will obviously have a different perspective, although no real assurance that your right. It's like gambling with your destiny.

 

[Natas]

If you believe that the Bible is the true Word of God, the end results are pretty clear. Hebrews 10:29-31 states: Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord. And again the Lord will judge His people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

If you think the Bible, God and Jesus is the biggest farce in history, you will obviously have a different perspective, although no real assurance that your right. It's like gambling with your destiny.

None of us have any real assurance that we are, "Right". You feel you have the answers and I feel you don't.That doesn't make either of us, "Right".

If I should believe (out of fear) that my destiny is in jeopardy, then shouldn't I cover all the bases with the many different beliefs and superstitions that MAY be right?

 

[blueman]

None of us have any real assurance that we are, "Right". You feel you have the answers and I feel you don't.That doesn't make either of us, "Right".

If I should believe (out of fear) that my destiny is in jeopardy, then shouldn't I cover all the bases with the many different beliefs and superstitions that MAY be right?

I'm at peace with what I believe in through Christ and the assurance that God's purpose and promises are true through His Holy Word, the Bible. That resonates in my spirit but not everyone shares that belief and that's fine. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of what you believe is true. You either believe that Jesus was the Son of God or that He was a lunatic by saying "I am the Way, The Truth and The Life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me (John 14:6). Based on Jesus's life, none of His actions have led many people to believe that He was a lunatic.

If you want to compare the various beliefs systems out there to find which one is right, you have every right to do so and I wish you the best in your journey.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I would say that would depend on whether or not you believe in the Bible, Christ, God,...The Bible HAS made it clear that if you confess your sins with your mouth and believe with your heart that He is faithful enough to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Will those who aren't saved go to Hell? The Bible says those who are wicked will be cast into fire and wail and there will be gnashing of teeth. Those who were born prior to Jesus coming weren't judged as we will be judged so to compare those with us can't be justified. They had to live by the commandments and by blood sacrifice for forgivness of sin. We on the other hand had One come for us that paid our blood sacrifice IF we believe in Him.

I think Christ's coming changed all that. He Died to forgive all our sins not just Christians.
Every one will have the opportunity to repent, even after death but before being received by God.

Terry
______________________________
Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God

 

[Quiddity]

I would say that would depend on whether or not you believe in the Bible, Christ, God,...The Bible HAS made it clear that if you confess your sins with your mouth and believe with your heart that He is faithful enough to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Will those who aren't saved go to Hell? The Bible says those who are wicked will be cast into fire and wail and there will be gnashing of teeth. Those who were born prior to Jesus coming weren't judged as we will be judged so to compare those with us can't be justified. They had to live by the commandments and by blood sacrifice for forgivness of sin. We on the other hand had One come for us that paid our blood sacrifice IF we believe in Him.

So one must:
1. Believe in the Bible
2. Confess Christ

I'm sure most have heard examples of people in an isolated area that have NOT heard of Christ or the Bible. If a man in this situaiton responded to God in his own way. Would he be toast? Directed at fromthe heart.

Want to make sure I understood you right.

~Victor

 

[Katzpur]

isis-astoroth brought-up in another thread about being saved and I was curious how christians on here feel about it.

If you you are unable to "save" another from accepting Christ as their savior have:

1) you failed as a christian
2) they failed as a human being
3) damned themselves to hell
4) destroyed their relationship with God for all eternity
5) broken their relationship with christians on earth?

I voted "No," because your poll gave only two choices with no qualifiers. And since this is your thread, not mine, I'm not going to sabotage it with LDS doctrine -- which I could, because I think it clarifies a whole lot of ambiguities found in the Bible.

But, briefly, to answer your questions:

1) No. As a Christian, it is not my responsibility to "save" anyone. It is only my responsibility to share the gospel of Jesus Christ to those who are willing to listen.

2) No. As someone else (wish I could remember who, because it was an awesome post) pointed out, there are so many factors involved in one's choice to accept Christ that it would be insane to think that all good people are going to do so during their lifetimes. Cultural issues alone would make that an impossibility.

3) No. Heaven's a pretty big place. I don't believe God is at all anxious to condemn vast numbers of his own offspring to Hell. I do, however, believe that some will receive a greater glory in Heaven than others.

4) Again, no. I believe that, during the period of time between a person's death and his resurrection, his spirit continues to have the opportunity to learn, grow, develop, repent and develop relationships -- with others and with God.

5) Hmmm. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. But, if I understand it correctly, no.

Kathryn

 

[michel]

I voted "No," because your poll gave only two choices with no qualifiers. And since this is your thread, not mine, I'm not going to sabotage it with LDS doctrine -- which I could, because I think it clarifies a whole lot of ambiguities found in the Bible.

But, briefly, to answer your questions:

1) No. As a Christian, it is not my responsibility to "save" anyone. It is only my responsibility to share the gospel of Jesus Christ to those who are willing to listen.

2) No. As someone else (wish I could remember who, because it was an awesome post) pointed out, there are so many factors involved in one's choice to accept Christ that it would be insane to think that all good people are going to do so during their lifetimes. Cultural issues alone would make that an impossibility.

3) No. Heaven's a pretty big place. I don't believe God is at all anxious to condemn vast numbers of his own offspring to Hell. I do, however, believe that some will receive a greater glory in Heaven than others.

4) Again, no. I believe that, during the period of time between a person's death and his resurrection, his spirit continues to have the opportunity to learn, grow, develop, repent and develop relationships -- with others and with God.

5) Hmmm. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. But, if I understand it correctly, no.

Kathryn

You do; and the answer is a resounding 'NO'

 

[Natas]

I'm at peace with what I believe in through Christ and the assurance that God's purpose and promises are true through His Holy Word, the Bible. That resonates in my spirit but not everyone shares that belief and that's fine. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of what you believe is true.

I refer you to your previous post, you are the one who said , " If you think the Bible, God and Jesus is the biggest farce in history, you will obviously have a different perspective, although no real assurance that your right. "

To which I replied, "None of us have any real assurance that we are, "Right". You feel you have the answers and I feel you don't.That doesn't make either of us, "Right".

You either believe that Jesus was the Son of God or that He was a lunatic by saying "I am the Way, The Truth and The Life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me (John 14:6).

Are you asking or stating? Obviously, if I don't believe the first part of your either/or question/statement, then how could I believe the latter?

Based on Jesus's life, none of His actions have led many people to believe that He was a lunatic.

That may be a good question for a different thread.

If you want to compare the various beliefs systems out there to find which one is right, you have every right to do so and I wish you the best in your journey.

You missed the point I'm afraid. You stated, "If you think the Bible, God and Jesus is the biggest farce in history, you will obviously have a different perspective, although no real assurance that your right. It's like gambling with your destiny."

To which I replied,
"If I should believe (out of fear) that my destiny is in jeopardy, then shouldn't I cover all the bases with the many different beliefs and superstitions that MAY be right?"

The point was -- since you were asking/stating that my destiny may be lost by gambling I was right, then I rightly asked you (from the point of view that you may be wrong also) that shouldn't I then insure that I had the best coverage from all areas of religion?

 

[blueman]

I refer you to your previous post, you are the one who said , " If you think the Bible, God and Jesus is the biggest farce in history, you will obviously have a different perspective, although no real assurance that your right. "

To which I replied, "None of us have any real assurance that we are, "Right". You feel you have the answers and I feel you don't.That doesn't make either of us, "Right".


Are you asking or stating? Obviously, if I don't believe the first part of your either/or question/statement, then how could I believe the latter?

That may be a good question for a different thread.

You missed the point I'm afraid. You stated, "If you think the Bible, God and Jesus is the biggest farce in history, you will obviously have a different perspective, although no real assurance that your right. It's like gambling with your destiny."

To which I replied,
"If I should believe (out of fear) that my destiny is in jeopardy, then shouldn't I cover all the bases with the many different beliefs and superstitions that MAY be right?"

The point was -- since you were asking/stating that my destiny may be lost by gambling I was right, then I rightly asked you (from the point of view that you may be wrong also) that shouldn't I then insure that I had the best coverage from all areas of religion?

It is a personal relationship that I have with Christ through salvation. You acknowledged that this is not your belief and that is fine. When you look at what I previously posted, I did not brand your differences of belief as right or wrong, but stated what I believed was true. Once again, it is a "personal relationship". By taking various attributes from each religion, you will learn this very fact: There are too many differences and belief systems that are in direct contrast with each other, that you will end up either utterly confused, frustrated or both. Jesus made it very simple for us that by believing and accepting Him as Lord, you will have a relationship with God The Father and have everlasting life. You either accept Him as the true and only way to God or believe that He was a nice person, but really deranged in His thinking. If your belief is the latter, I wished you well in your journey to find the truth by researching other religious beliefs. Again, I wish you well.

 

[blueman]

I voted "No," because your poll gave only two choices with no qualifiers. And since this is your thread, not mine, I'm not going to sabotage it with LDS doctrine -- which I could, because I think it clarifies a whole lot of ambiguities found in the Bible.

But, briefly, to answer your questions:

1) No. As a Christian, it is not my responsibility to "save" anyone. It is only my responsibility to share the gospel of Jesus Christ to those who are willing to listen.

2) No. As someone else (wish I could remember who, because it was an awesome post) pointed out, there are so many factors involved in one's choice to accept Christ that it would be insane to think that all good people are going to do so during their lifetimes. Cultural issues alone would make that an impossibility.

3) No. Heaven's a pretty big place. I don't believe God is at all anxious to condemn vast numbers of his own offspring to Hell. I do, however, believe that some will receive a greater glory in Heaven than others.

4) Again, no. I believe that, during the period of time between a person's death and his resurrection, his spirit continues to have the opportunity to learn, grow, develop, repent and develop relationships -- with others and with God.

5) Hmmm. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. But, if I understand it correctly, no.

Kathryn

Katzpur, I'm in agreement with the responses you listed with the exception of item #4. I don't believe you have an opportunity to repent and reconcile with God after you die. Your opportunity to accept or reject Christ as Saviour and Lord happens while you are on this earth, not afterwards.

 

[Natas]

It is a personal relationship that I have with Christ through salvation.

I'm sure you are devout believer in your chosen faith, and I don't question that.

You acknowledged that this is not your belief and that is fine. When you look at what I previously posted, I did not brand your differences of belief as right or wrong, but stated what I believed was true.

Well, let's examine what you actually said, and not what you are saying now.

You said,

If you think the Bible, God and Jesus is the biggest farce in history, you will obviously have a different perspective, although no real assurance that your right."

To which I replied, "None of us have any real assurance that we are, "Right". You feel you have the answers and I feel you don't.That doesn't make either of us, "Right".

This repeated denial of what you actually posted is getting a trifle boring.

Once again, it is a "personal relationship". By taking various attributes from each religion, you will learn this very fact: There are too many differences and belief systems that are in direct contrast with each other, that you will end up either utterly confused, frustrated or both.

Once again you have completely missed my point. I wasn't talking about taking various attributes from each religion, it was the possibility that your particular brand of religion may be wrong and another one may be right.

Jesus made it very simple for us that by believing and accepting Him as Lord, you will have a relationship with God The Father and have everlasting life. You either accept Him as the true and only way to God or believe that He was a nice person, but really deranged in His thinking. If your belief is the latter, I wished you well in your journey to find the truth by researching other religious beliefs. Again, I wish you well.

I won't get into another accept him as the only way or deranged thinker game again.
Like I said, I'm sure you are devout believer in your chosen faith, and I don't question that.
But "saving souls" is serious stuff and it may work out better to use something besides this either/or approach. I wish you well, as well.

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur, I'm in agreement with the responses you listed with the exception of item #4. I don't believe you have an opportunity to repent and reconcile with God after you die. Your opportunity to accept or reject Christ as Saviour and Lord happens while you are on this earth, not afterwards.

Hey, blueman! Well, what can I say? Four out of five's not bad!

What if you don't have that opportunity? Don't tell me everyone does, because we both know that's not the case. What about all of the millions of people who have lived and died without ever having heard of Jesus Christ? Do you honestly think God' going to damn them to an eternity in hell just because they had the misfortune to be born in the wrong place or at the wrong time to have had the opportunity you did? Had you been born into a Hindu family in Calcutta, do you honestly think you'd have ended up a Christian? Do you think you'd have been damned if you didn't?

 

[goodjewishboy]

My question is this. Saved from what?

In Judaism (and let me preface this by saying I'm not an expert) there is a concept and a word that is similar on some level to the christian idea of being saved. that word is redemption. One does not seek redemption out of a fear of hellfire and punishment, but by embracing what is holy and out of a desire to bring onself closer to G-d.

 

[Katzpur]

My question is this. Saved from what?

In Judaism (and let me preface this by saying I'm not an expert) there is a concept and a word that is similar on some level to the christian idea of being saved. that word is redemption. One does not seek redemption out of a fear of hellfire and punishment, but by embracing what is holy and out of a desire to bring onself closer to G-d.

Hi, goodjewishboy.

It's a good question, actually. I believe that through Jesus Christ's sacrifice we are all saved from the permanence of death. I believe that the vast majority of God's children will be saved from an eternity in Hell. (That's where I believe that "redemption" comes into play). But only a relative few will know the fullness of salvation, or "exaltation." True salvation, to me, means being given the opportunity to progress throughout eternity, not being hindered by anything. Thus, when I hear someone speak of being "saved," I have to wonder the same thing -- saved from what? Saved from death, hell or the inability to reach our full potential. (I know this isn't what you had in mind when you said, "saved from what?", but I still think it's a darned good question.)

Kathryn
(goodmormongirl)

 

[lilithu]

In Judaism (and let me preface this by saying I'm not an expert) there is a concept and a word that is similar on some level to the christian idea of being saved. that word is redemption. One does not seek redemption out of a fear of hellfire and punishment, but by embracing what is holy and out of a desire to bring onself closer to G-d.

Namaste GoodJewishBoy, I like your comments.

Heaven is the state of being in right relation with God. Hell is the state of not being in right relations with God. They not a rewards nor punishments; they simply are the consequences of one's choices. One desires right relations with God in a way like one desires right relations with one's family and friends and community and world - to feel properly connected. When one's relations are not right, one feels ill at ease until things are made right. Salvation or redemption or atonement, whatever one wants to call it, is relational. It is never just about the individual. Judaism never forgets this; Christianity sometimes does.