Being objective in religion

[Unveiled Artist]

For instance, with faith in Jesus Christ, I look at recordings about Him and decide they are worthwhile to practice taking into consideration every other source of truth I know. John 3:16 - to believe in Christ to me means that I live His way because it is something I want to do. Then I will see if I can see as He did and know as He knew and other things as He did.

Objective topics don't have " I " though.

If you said, in the bible, jesus' disciples written about the life of jesus. We can find written information in the X archaeology records. We know (as written) his followers looked at jesus as the way to god. It has also been written that the disciples considered what they experienced as truth. Many followers after the Church followed the teachings of jesus through his disciples. We have the written teachings of christ through the records of those who spoke about him.

Whether they are true, right or wrong, or anything like that is purely subjective. Facts are not subjective.

Therefore, you would need to explain how the records demonstrate the nature of jesus supernatural connection with god without any Is and testimonies involved. Facts only.

I'm sorry what do you mean?

The definition and nature of the word religion is highly subjective. Each person's religion is defined by ones self or community but not as word that describes people as a whole.

It's like you are asking for a word (religion), saying it means one thing without taking into account, the context and subjective nature makes it completely contrary to the definition you have in mind.

 

[David T]

Go ahead and debate it... you can try to be objective.

God gave us our brains for a reason... he likes when we use them!

You can be atheist for now and still practice religions to see what becomes of you... then maybe you won't stay atheist.

Good point.

Why don't you present an objective argument?

Everyone has their individual religion too and again if they can find out how to be objective about it it will prosper as well.
On to page 3.

"God gave us our brains for a reason... he likes when we use them!"
Then obviously he is a deeply dissapointed Zeus or is that Odin? I can never tell which is modern theism, Zeus or Odin? I like Odin my name is related Thorson. I love both science fiction and medieval narrative like like lord of the rings., and Harry Potter!
I might suggest more outdoor wilderness hiking but it doesnt seem to be a thing for you. And ps i am just as big a goof in context to atheism, At least from their perspectuve. So see you and atheists do think exactly alike.

 

[Cooky]

I undergraded in theology and so what is your point exactly? We arent talking auto mechanics computer technology etc.

So i might say you dont understand what i have said. I mean after all, surely a highly read and educated individual by some magical powers invested in the university are able to easily decifer a 2,000 year old story written by a multiple of people over an expanse of time about a simple carpenter, who never wrote a single word. Please you mock the text as if its a simplistic intellectual issue. And apparently university breeds pedophiles in excess of the general population. Highly trained eh! Where were the phd genius' when real things are happening around them? Reading rhe bible and writing lame theories on the text? Out to lunch.


Please tell me about the thomas narrative what is that exactly?

You said "a clueless leadership selected by clueless individuals"... It should be clear what "my point" was exactly.

Hint: (A priest has 8 or 9 years of University education...)

 

[robocop (actually)]

Objective topics don't have " I " though.

If you said, in the bible, jesus' disciples written about the life of jesus. We can find written information in the X archaeology records. We know (as written) his followers looked at jesus as the way to god. It has also been written that the disciples considered what they experienced as truth. Many followers after the Church followed the teachings of jesus through his disciples. We have the written teachings of christ through the records of those who spoke about him.

Whether they are true, right or wrong, or anything like that is purely subjective. Facts are not subjective.

Therefore, you would need to explain how the records demonstrate the nature of jesus supernatural connection with god without any Is and testimonies involved. Facts only.

I find a lot of objectivity to it. When I started to follow it morally I found that objectivity. John 7:17 says "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." I believe that. It is conditionally objective, or in other words objective to those who try it. Will log back in tomorrow.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I find a lot of objectivity to it. When I started to follow it morally I found that objectivity. John 7:17 says "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." I believe that. It is conditionally objective, or in other words objective to those who try it. Will log back in tomorrow.

Hm. Objective translation would be to 1. take out the I. Saying you believe something is fact doesnt make it fact. and 2. Reference something outside of the scripture. Thats confirmation bias and not a good support for objective facts when christianity is based on what you have faith in not what you see and know in front of you. (Reminds me of Hebrews )

 

[David T]

You said "a clueless leadership selected by clueless individuals"... It should be clear what "my point" was exactly.

Hint: (A priest has 8 or 9 years of University education...)

Ok my phd is better than your phd Debate. Sorry thinking for oneself takes a lit and i mean alot of actual hard work. Go back to sleep.

 

[Thief]

I would redefine it as, "conveyed with reasons that will make sense to many different people

nay.....by the very nature of belief....
many are called few are chosen

and again....by the nature of being unique....
no two people will view not even one item from the same perspective

there will never be consensus

I will stand out as unique
many will read what I post

only a few will understand

 

[robocop (actually)]

Hm. Objective translation would be to 1. take out the I. Saying you believe something is fact doesnt make it fact. and 2. Reference something outside of the scripture. Thats confirmation bias and not a good support for objective facts when christianity is based on what you have faith in not what you see and know in front of you. (Reminds me of Hebrews )

If we are to be objective, we must include John 7:17 which says that it is only conditionally objective; that by doing God's will we will see the objective reasons our self.

Starting with being morally clean, I did this and found those reasons, but as I've just stated it would be pointless to give those objective reasons since John 7:17 says they will not be objective to everyone.

 

[robocop (actually)]

and again....by the nature of being unique....
no two people will view not even one item from the same perspective

Then why do people speak with each other?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's subjective.

If we are to be objective, we must include John 7:17 which says that it is only conditionally objective; that by doing God's will we will see the objective reasons our self.

Using scripture and nothing outside of christian resources makes your information highly subjective.

There is no such thing as God's Will in any objective sense of the term.

Because god's will is meaningful to you, your views and opinions (as per the name) and beliefs are highly subjective.

Starting with being morally clean, I did this and found those reasons, but as I've just stated it would be pointless to give those objective reasons since John 7:17 says they will not be objective to everyone.

Yes. I know it is pointless. It's not objective.

 

[robocop (actually)]

It would be objective if you tried out what i

and again....by the nature of being unique....
no two people will view not even one item from the same perspective

But we recognize in each other knowledge from the Torah.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Using scripture and nothing outside of christian resources makes your information highly subjective.

Yes. I believe you can only know something true as well as you know its opposite is false, so you must have equally as much knowledge against contradictory resources. I think we agree there.

I have found it to be objective. I know this through the same means I know of other things.

I couldn't find it out until I tried doing the "Will of God." I was an atheist and didn't believe in a will of God, but I tried it and came to the conclusion that there is a God and that He has a will and that I can follow it and know of it...

 

[Thief]

Then why do people speak with each other?

because ........no two people see anything in the same way.......soooooooo

we talk about it

any of it

all the time

even in forums

 

[robocop (actually)]

because ........no two people see anything in the same way.......soooooooo

nay.....by the very nature of belief....
many are called few are chosen

and again....by the nature of being unique....
no two people will view not even one item from the same perspective

there will never be consensus

I will stand out as unique
many will read what I post

only a few will understand

because ........no two people see anything in the same way.......soooooooo

we talk about it

any of it

all the time

even in forums

I'll grant you we're all individuals... very much so. Still there has to be some informational value to communication or we wouldn't do it. We may not provide other's reasons but by providing information we help each other with reasons surely. And my point is not about how much we convince each other, but that objectivity is better than not. I said in the OP, "we have a better chance of passing them off" referring to objective reasons.

Also, remember that some of the things we say to each other are sacred, in religion. Sometimes we have special Torah knowledge. Sometimes we see beyond the curtain of life into what we knew before we came to this earth. And sometimes we get revelation to share with each other because it couldn't come to the other person and we have the opportunity to bless each other.

 

[robocop (actually)]

because ........no two people see anything in the same way.......soooooooo

Take musical artists. They may solely understand their music, but it would be impossible for them to get better if there wasn't some understanding between them and their fans of what was good.

 

[Desert Snake]

If you want to spread your religion or have a better understanding of yours, I think it helps to be objective.

Objective means, "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts."

I would redefine it as, "conveyed with reasons that will make sense to many different people instead of something that other people don't know what is good about".

If we have reasons to give for what we believe in our religions, we have a better chance of passing them off. Sometimes part of the religion is believed because it is a piece of the whole religion which has reasons.

Now that I am baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I hope to be objective so people can have a chance to fairly decide if they like my religion. I believe that you can only know something as well as you know the opposite to be wrong, so I will talk about many other things besides just the LDS Church in my efforts.

My religious beliefs aren't based on faith. Neither was I particularly looking for them, or personally favourable to them, ie a bias, [What' makes things subjective, is that... they are, subjective. They are literally subjective, because they are our beliefs.

I call this necessary subjectiveness, and it is why these words, objective, and subjective, are, not always apt in expressing a means by which one may [consider "other" religious beliefs.

 

[Thief]

I'll grant you we're all individuals... very much so. Still there has to be some informational value to communication or we wouldn't do it. We may not provide other's reasons but by providing information we help each other with reasons surely. And my point is not about how much we convince each other, but that objectivity is better than not. I said in the OP, "we have a better chance of passing them off" referring to objective reasons.

Also, remember that some of the things we say to each other are sacred, in religion. Sometimes we have special Torah knowledge. Sometimes we see beyond the curtain of life into what we knew before we came to this earth. And sometimes we get revelation to share with each other because it couldn't come to the other person and we have the opportunity to bless each other.

such as Moses?
Jesus?

the did notice.....having followers....
is not a blessing

I don't have any
and I don't follow anyone else
although I find it needful to quote parables......and credit the Carpenter

 

[Thief]

Take musical artists. They may solely understand their music, but it would be impossible for them to get better if there wasn't some understanding between them and their fans of what was good.

and that brings to mind a quick story

I was a Simon and Garfunkel fan in my youth

one day the nun in charge of music lessons did a playback...
The Boxer

line by line she did ask what the lyrics meant

and line by line I raised my hand

and then a classmate turns to me and wants to know.....
Did you WRITE that song?

hehehehe

 

[robocop (actually)]

My religious beliefs aren't based on faith. Neither was I particularly looking for them, or personally favourable to them, ie a bias, [What' makes things subjective, is that... they are, subjective. They are literally subjective, because they are our beliefs.

I call this necessary subjectiveness, and it is why these words, objective, and subjective, are, not always apt in expressing a means by which one may [consider "other" religious beliefs.

Alright then in your case you are subjective. Please note that faith/trust in Jesus Christ is not subjective though. When we see what Jesus did and want to try it, everything is for a reason and we can communicate those reasons. We pick what we do with Jesus Christ's story like everything else.

 

[robocop (actually)]

such as Moses?
Jesus?

the did notice.....having followers....
is not a blessing

I don't have any
and I don't follow anyone else
although I find it needful to quote parables......and credit the Carpenter

and that brings to mind a quick story

I was a Simon and Garfunkel fan in my youth

one day the nun in charge of music lessons did a playback...
The Boxer

line by line she did ask what the lyrics meant

and line by line I raised my hand

and then a classmate turns to me and wants to know.....
Did you WRITE that song?

hehehehe

I have a great respect for you Thief. Supposedly the most ancient religion, Noachide, has 6 negative commandments and 1 positive commandment. It is to establish a legal system with your mouth. If we aim for world peace, that would be a worthy application of what communication we can do.