Being Kshatriya

[spyrichuwel]

- a real Kshatriya exerts himself till the point of collapse

- a real Kshatriya is always thinking about war and is combat ready

- a single Kshatriya can fight 10 untrained shudras

- a real Kshatriya doesn't pick weak targets, he has manly fights with more skilled and stronger opponents so that he can improve his skills

- a real Kshatriya never makes excuses

- a real Kshatriya isn't just physically healthy, he is a deadly machine, his objective is to be as destructive as possible

- if a man got slapped by someone and he is ashamed of it, and he never forgets it than he is a Kshatriya

- a real Kshatriya honors even a brave and skillful enemy

- you can train a shudra martial arts, yet he will no match for a kshatriya

 

[ajay0]

- a real Kshatriya exerts himself till the point of collapse

- a real Kshatriya is always thinking about war and is combat ready

- a single Kshatriya can fight 10 untrained shudras

- a real Kshatriya doesn't pick weak targets, he has manly fights with more skilled and stronger opponents so that he can improve his skills

- a real Kshatriya never makes excuses

- a real Kshatriya isn't just physically healthy, he is a deadly machine, his objective is to be as destructive as possible

- if a man got slapped by someone and he is ashamed of it, and he never forgets it than he is a Kshatriya

- a real Kshatriya honors even a brave and skillful enemy

- you can train a shudra martial arts, yet he will no match for a kshatriya

Kshatriya does not mean just a brave warrior, but also an administrator.

Swami Chinmayananda had stated that a Kshatriya is one who has sattvic ideals and opposes injustice or adharma.

A mercenary who fights for the sake of money cannot claim real kshatriyahood. His loyalty is to the one who has the most money while the kshatriya's loyalty is to truth and dharma at all costs, and is ready to sacrifice his life and possessions cheerfully for the same.

King Shibi was ready to give up his life for the sake of a bird who sought refuge in him, abiding by the highest standards of dharma and kshatriyahood.

https://www.mahabharataonline.com/stories/mahabharata_story.php?id=7

 

[GoodbyeDave]

King Shibi was ready to give up his life for the sake of a bird who sought refuge in him, abiding by the highest standards of dharma and kshatriyahood.

Like Yudhishthira and his dog, demonstrating that honour is not negotiable and maintaining it is the real test of nobility.

 

[spyrichuwel]

Kshatriya does not mean just a brave warrior, but also an administrator.

Swami Chinmayananda had stated that a Kshatriya is one who has sattvic ideals and opposes injustice or adharma.

A mercenary who fights for the sake of money cannot claim real kshatriyahood. His loyalty is to the one who has the most money while the kshatriya's loyalty is to truth and dharma at all costs, and is ready to sacrifice his life and possessions cheerfully for the same.

King Shibi was ready to give up his life for the sake of a bird who sought refuge in him, abiding by the highest standards of dharma and kshatriyahood.

https://www.mahabharataonline.com/stories/mahabharata_story.php?id=7

Good point.

But people who enter into conflict exposing themselved to danger especially so if there are chances of death, whose staying alive depends on swift movements are Kshatriyan on some level.

Very different from a nurse, a shop keeper or a school teacher.

Most soldiers were paid by their generals and kings.

By your objection US and most government army soldiers do it for their payroll so they cannot be considered Kshatriyas.

Administration is supposed to be a Kshatriya's job but today's democratic governments are made up of non-Kshatriyas.

 

[spyrichuwel]

Like Yudhishthira and his dog, demonstrating that honour is not negotiable and maintaining it is the real test of nobility.

Yes people with a strong sense of justice are also highly qualified to rule politically.

If he could stand by a mere dog than he could certainly qualify to kingdom over humans.

 

[ajay0]

Good point.

But people who enter into conflict exposing themselved to danger especially so if there are chances of death, whose staying alive depends on swift movements are Kshatriyan on some level.

True, but a mercenary who fights and places himself in danger for the sake of money cannot be put in the same league as the soldier who fights for the sake of noble ideals.

Rama gave up his throne for the sake of a higher ideal, while Duryodhana was keen on usurping the kingdom of his cousins out of greed and avarice, which has nothing to do with idealism.

By your objection US and most government army soldiers do it for their payroll so they cannot be considered Kshatriyas.

If American soldiers are fighting for the sake of higher ideals, they can be considered as Kshatriyas. If they are pursuing the aims of clandestine corporate interests veiled by propaganda as fight for 'freedom and democracy', obviously they are just mercenaries or vaishyas.

Administration is supposed to be a Kshatriya's job but today's democratic governments are made up of non-Kshatriyas.

Kshatriyas are those whose actions are led by sattvic or noble values.

It has been predicted in the Kali Yuga that the governments will be led by shudras focused on bodily pleasures and vaishyas focussed on profit at the expense of values . This is due to the predominance of tamas in the kali yuga.

Hence the reason why Ramakrishna stated that to lead a truthful life in the Kali Yuga is a great austerity or spiritual practice in itself.

 

[ajay0]

The caste system originally was not birth-based but was based on merit. Rishi Jabala was the son of a prostitute, and majority of other rishis were from manual occupations such as hunting, farming and so on. It was later on that rigidity came about in the caste structure and it became birth-based and privileged favoring a chosen few. This negation of merit and focus on birth based privileges, led to loss of efficiency and effectiveness amongst the Hindus in their professions leading to decadence and foreign invasions later on.


Paramahamsa Yogananda states on the caste system in this regard...

"These were (originally) symbolic designations of the stages of spiritual refinement. They were not intended as social categories. And they were not intended to be hereditary. Things changed as the yugas [cycles of time] descended toward mental darkness. People in the higher castes wanted to make sure their children were accepted as members of their own caste. Thus, ego-identification caused them to freeze the ancient classifications into what is called the ‘caste system.’ Such was not the original intention. In obvious fact, however, the offspring of a brahmin may be a sudra by nature. And a peasant, sometimes, is a real saint.”"


The Mahabharatha had also emphasized conduct as the qualification for being a brahmana as shown by the given excerpt of the discussion between the Yaksha and Yudhisthira....

“The Yaksha asked, 'By what, O king, birth, behaviour, study, or learning doth a person become a Brahmana? Tell us with certitude!' Yudhishthira answered,-'Listen, O Yaksha! It is neither birth, nor study, nor learning, that is the cause of Brahmanahood, without doubt, it is behaviour that constitutes it. One's behaviour should always be well-guarded, especially by a Brahmana. He who maintaineth his conduct unimpaired, is never impaired himself. Professors and pupils, in fact, all who study the scriptures, if addicted to wicked habits, are to be regarded as illiterate wretches. He only is learned who performeth his religious duties. He even that hath studied the four Vedas is to be regarded as a wicked wretch scarcely distinguishable from a Sudra (if his conduct be not correct).”


It is to be also noted that the Hindu nationalist leader Narendra Modi who hails from the OBC or Shudra caste personally, is now the Indian prime minister and executing his duties as a ruler or Kshatriya.

Same too with President Ram Nath Kovind, who hails from the Shudra Dalit caste , and is now performing his duties as a Kshatriya as supreme commander of the Indian armed forces and head of the Indian republic.

 

[spyrichuwel]

- a real Kshatriya exerts himself till the point of collapse

Listen to what he says @1:28

 

[spyrichuwel]

The caste system originally was not birth-based but was based on merit. Rishi Jabala was the son of a prostitute, and majority of other rishis were from manual occupations such as hunting, farming and so on. It was later on that rigidity came about in the caste structure and it became birth-based and privileged favoring a chosen few. This negation of merit and focus on birth based privileges, led to loss of efficiency and effectiveness amongst the Hindus in their professions leading to decadence and foreign invasions later on.


Paramahamsa Yogananda states on the caste system in this regard...

"These were (originally) symbolic designations of the stages of spiritual refinement. They were not intended as social categories. And they were not intended to be hereditary. Things changed as the yugas [cycles of time] descended toward mental darkness. People in the higher castes wanted to make sure their children were accepted as members of their own caste. Thus, ego-identification caused them to freeze the ancient classifications into what is called the ‘caste system.’ Such was not the original intention. In obvious fact, however, the offspring of a brahmin may be a sudra by nature. And a peasant, sometimes, is a real saint.”"


The Mahabharatha had also emphasized conduct as the qualification for being a brahmana as shown by the given excerpt of the discussion between the Yaksha and Yudhisthira....

“The Yaksha asked, 'By what, O king, birth, behaviour, study, or learning doth a person become a Brahmana? Tell us with certitude!' Yudhishthira answered,-'Listen, O Yaksha! It is neither birth, nor study, nor learning, that is the cause of Brahmanahood, without doubt, it is behaviour that constitutes it. One's behaviour should always be well-guarded, especially by a Brahmana. He who maintaineth his conduct unimpaired, is never impaired himself. Professors and pupils, in fact, all who study the scriptures, if addicted to wicked habits, are to be regarded as illiterate wretches. He only is learned who performeth his religious duties. He even that hath studied the four Vedas is to be regarded as a wicked wretch scarcely distinguishable from a Sudra (if his conduct be not correct).”


It is to be also noted that the Hindu nationalist leader Narendra Modi who hails from the OBC or Shudra caste personally, is now the Indian prime minister and executing his duties as a ruler or Kshatriya.

Same too with President Ram Nath Kovind, who hails from the Shudra Dalit caste , and is now performing his duties as a Kshatriya as supreme commander of the Indian armed forces and head of the Indian republic.

You should read the whole thing.

In the snake story, the snake says "even Shudras study the Vedas which makes them special and can have noble qualities"

To which Yudhisthira "what you have just described is a Brahmin, whoever has those qualities is no real Shudra and whoever does not have them is no real Brahmana"

 

[ajay0]

You should read the whole thing.

In the snake story, the snake says "even Shudras study the Vedas which makes them special and can have noble qualities"

To which Yudhisthira "what you have just described is a Brahmin, whoever has those qualities is no real Shudra and whoever does not have them is no real Brahmana"

This is correct. If one born in the shudra caste has the qualities of a brahmin, he is technically a brahmin and same goes for one born in the brahmin caste who displays the qualities of a shudra.

Vishwamitra who was born into the kshatriya caste became a brahmin through his conduct and actions and so was the case with Parashurama who was born into the brahmana caste who became a Kshatriya through his conduct and actions.

I would say it is the values and character which makes the brahmana.

Rishi Jabala was the son of a prostitute and as a youth he approached a Guru for study. The Guru asked his lineage upon which the youth replied honestly . The Guru took him for a disciple stating that his honesty was proof of his nobility and brahminhood, and hence he was qualified to learn from him.

Satyakama Jabala - Wikipedia

 

[sayak83]

True, but a mercenary who fights and places himself in danger for the sake of money cannot be put in the same league as the soldier who fights for the sake of noble ideals.

Rama gave up his throne for the sake of a higher ideal, while Duryodhana was keen on usurping the kingdom of his cousins out of greed and avarice, which has nothing to do with idealism.




If American soldiers are fighting for the sake of higher ideals, they can be considered as Kshatriyas. If they are pursuing the aims of clandestine corporate interests veiled by propaganda as fight for 'freedom and democracy', obviously they are just mercenaries or vaishyas.



Kshatriyas are those whose actions are led by sattvic or noble values.

It has been predicted in the Kali Yuga that the governments will be led by shudras focused on bodily pleasures and vaishyas focussed on profit at the expense of values . This is due to the predominance of tamas in the kali yuga.

Hence the reason why Ramakrishna stated that to lead a truthful life in the Kali Yuga is a great austerity or spiritual practice in itself.

Duryodhana and the Kauravas were Kshatriyas, bad ones but Kshatriyas nonetheless. Mahabharata does not say otherwise.

 

[ajay0]

Duryodhana and the Kauravas were Kshatriyas, bad ones but Kshatriyas nonetheless. Mahabharata does not say otherwise.

Duryodhana was the best mace warrior of his time and fell in battle fighting. I don't doubt his capacity as a warrior but obviously he cannot be claimed to be an ideal kshatriya like Rama.

Even Ravana for that matter was a Brahmana due to his scholarship in the vedas, but he cannot be stated to be an ideal Brahmana as well like Vasistha or Vyasa.

 

[sayak83]

Duryodhana was the best mace warrior of his time and fell in battle fighting. I don't doubt his capacity as a warrior but obviously he cannot be claimed to be an ideal kshatriya like Rama.

Even Ravana for that matter was a Brahmana due to his scholarship in the vedas, but he cannot be stated to be an ideal Brahmana as well like Vasistha or Vyasa.

No, not ideal, obviously. But he was a Kshatriya.

 

[ajay0]

No, not ideal, obviously. But he was a Kshatriya.

Just the same as Ravana was a Brahmana.

 

[sayak83]

Just the same as Ravana was a Brahmana.

No. He was Kshatriya by action.. hence Kshatriya.

 

[ajay0]

No. He was Kshatriya by action.. hence Kshatriya.

How would you categorise Hemu as ! He was born a brahmana, was a vaishya by occupation and became a Kshatriya who fell in combat later on fighting the mughals.

 

[spyrichuwel]

He wasn't a son of a prostitute, he was a son of a "*******" maid woman. He just did not know who his father was.

 

[sayak83]

How would you categorise Hemu as ! He was born a brahmana, was a vaishya by occupation and became a Kshatriya who fell in combat later on fighting the mughals.

Kshatriya. Its what he eventually excelled at. Same with MahaPadma Nanda or the Peshwa Maratha rulers. Similarly Buddha would be Brahmin etc.

 

[spyrichuwel]

Me personally

1) all castes are important because all castes have their place in society and are part of the civilization

2) a Shudra who follows Hinduism and has sincere interest in being a Hindu is respectable and should be treated as such

3) it is important to let Shudras grow so that their gunas evolve

 

[spyrichuwel]

A Brahmin is a mix of Sattva and Rajas. So it is possible for a Brahmin to lapse into a Kshatriya. A Kshatriya becomes converted into a Brahmin through severe austerities/prayer/quest for academic knowledge.

Born Brahmin behaves as a Kshatriya > Parashurama, Drona

Born Kshatriya behaves as a Brahmin > Vishwamitra

imo hypothetically Brahmins can be martially dangerous because of their Sattvic nature which allows them to be motivated to train positively and they can fight with a clear mind in a relaxed manner.

Kshatriyas can be too quick, aggressive and fast thinking unable to focus on one thing. They are more wham, bam, thank you ma'am.