Being dumb at work

[SigurdReginson]

So, the other day at work I was up in ICU (intensive care unit), and I was making my rounds. There was one patient I had who was an older woman. She seemed in a fragile state, and I was trying to get her diet order straightened out. She was on a clear liquid diet, but she was also vegan, so it was a little challenging to get her something she could have.

She was talking about her past experiences and how one time she did a water fasting that effected her in a negative way (she did it for more than 2 weeks). She dropped a lot of weight in an unhealthy way. I shared that just recently I also lost an unhealthy amount of weight, but that I turned that around and have been increasing my caloric intake and have been exercising to help gain that weight back again.

She asked me why I lost so much weight, and me being me, I told her.

I told her about how things have been stressful for me lately with my living situation and with work. She told me that I should go to church. I then told her that my situation has improved drastically and that things are going great. She said that I should still go to church anyways... Now, I should have left it at that. Hell, I should have left it a while back.

So I kind of chuckled a little and told her how she reminded me of my mom, and that she was always trying to get me to go to church, too. She said "Well, why don't you listen to her?" So, I told her that I don't believe, and that I haven't even told her that I don't believe yet. She then said "She doesn't even know? Oh dear..."

She looked mortified. I could tell she was disturbed by that notion...

I can't talk about that stuff when I'm at work, and I'll never make that mistake again. Still, when that situation was unfolding, I was cringing inwardly while in the back of my mind my brain was screaming out "What are you doing?! Stop talking!" I just couldn't stop, though.

Then later on, long after that whole situation, it dawned on me... I think the reason I did keep talking was because she did remind me so much of my mom. I think there was a part of me that was testing the waters to see what would happen if I did ever come clean to my mom with the information that I was an atheist...

I know she suspects that I've strayed away from god. She talks about getting right with christ every time I see her. For every holiday she gives me books related to christianity. For christmas, she gave me a book about christian near death experiences.

My mom would also respond in the same way that patient did; mortified. She'd also begin to fear for my soul, though I think she's already doing that... It really sucks that I can't just be honest with her and tell her how I feel about things.

I love the truth. My life is shaped by my search for it. I hate that I have to lie, but I will if I have to. It's not what I want, though.

 

[sun rise]

I love the truth. My life is shaped by my search for it. I hate that I have to lie, but I will if I have to. It's not what I want, though.

I tend not to give advice, but in this case, this is how I see it and what I try to do. So I don't think you have to lie but there are ways of being honest:

Keeping a closed mouth is not lying.

There are honest and positive ways of responding at least to me.

Of course thinking of such things in the moment can be a real challenge, but you could be honest and say that you love the truth and then acknowledge that she finds the truth in church. You could ask questions about her experience in church etc leading the conversation away from her giving you advice to letting her talk about what she clearly loves.

 

[Windwalker]

That's a good self-reflection, that it's like a trial run telling your mother. It's hard for people of an older generation to understand things like not believing what everyone believes in. God is a given for most of the older generation, and atheism was viewed as a form of anti-God, lawlessness of badness in the past. Even my mother, who was far more progressive in her views, not believing in original sin, for instance, when she heard my niece's husband didn't believe in God took that very negatively.

I reassured her, no he's not a bad person. It's just simply that the way traditional religion speaks of God, is something hard for a lot of people to buy into. It doesn't make them bad to not believe in things that don't make a lot of sense, like casting unbelievers into a fiery furnace to be tortured, and such. I was able to help here get over that programmed uneasiness.

And that is what it is, programming. They're just responding with what's been instilled into them. People's minds can be changed, their views softened, unless they are fundamentalists. In which case, everyone but themselves are wrong and there is no persuasion possible. They are closed off emotionally and spiritually from questioning beliefs. In which case, declarations of atheism may have strong negative consequences, such as expulsion from the family. In that case, it becomes a choice of what is worth that or not.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I tend not to give advice, but in this case, this is how I see it and what I try to do. So I don't think you have to lie but there are ways of being honest:

Keeping a closed mouth is not lying.

There are honest and positive ways of responding at least to me.

Of course thinking of such things in the moment can be a real challenge, but you could be honest and say that you love the truth and then acknowledge that she finds the truth in church. You could ask questions about her experience in church etc leading the conversation away from her giving you advice to letting her talk about what she clearly loves.

Yah... I think normally I would do something similar.

I think for me it's not that I'm worried about how she might react if she knew. I'm more worried about her mental state. She has bipolar disorder, and I really don't want to send her down a spiral of depression. I don't want to cause anyone pain, especially those I care about.

Still... Maybe it'd be like ripping off a bandaid, and then she'd be ok after a while? I guess that's one reason I was testing the waters with that lady. I know my mom won't take it well, but maybe I'm making something out to be bigger than it actually is?

She's getting older, and death has been on her mind a lot lately. She wants to make sure everyone she cares about is ok before then, I think. Having hell beliefs for non believers complicates that for her...

So, I don't know. It's an uncertainty that may just stay an uncertainty indefinitely.

 

[SigurdReginson]

That's a good self-reflection, that it's like a trial run telling your mother. It's hard for people of an older generation to understand things like not believing what everyone believes in. God is a given for most of the older generation, and atheism was viewed as a form of anti-God, lawlessness of badness in the past. Even my mother, who was far more progressive in her views, not believing in original sin, for instance, when she heard my niece's husband didn't believe in God took that very negatively.

I reassured her, no he's not a bad person. It's just simply that the way traditional religion speaks of God, is something hard for a lot of people to buy into. It doesn't make them bad to not believe in things that don't make a lot of sense, like casting unbelievers into a fiery furnace to be tortured, and such. I was able to help here get over that programmed uneasiness.

And that is what it is, programming. They're just responding with what's been instilled into them. People's minds can be changed, their views softened, unless they are fundamentalists. In which case, everyone but themselves are wrong and there is no persuasion possible. They are closed off emotionally and spiritually from questioning beliefs. In which case, declarations of atheism may have strong negative consequences, such as expulsion from the family. In that case, it becomes a choice of what is worth that or not.

She is evangelical, but she is also more fundamentalist in her interpretation of the bible. She'd neve shun me or anything like that, but her views of me would change. Like I said in my post to @sun rise, though, it's more about my fear of how it'd make her feel rather than any consequences directed at me.

Honestly, the whole thing hinges on her hell beliefs. I think given time, she could relinquish those a little, but she is a very fearful person. She doesn't question things, so if that's her belief, it'd take a hell of a lot for her to allow herself to actually examine it and question things.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

So, the other day at work I was up in ICU (intensive care unit), and I was making my rounds. There was one patient I had who was an older woman. She seemed in a fragile state, and I was trying to get her diet order straightened out. She was on a clear liquid diet, but she was also vegan, so it was a little challenging to get her something she could have.

She was talking about her past experiences and how one time she did a water fasting that effected her in a negative way (she did it for more than 2 weeks). She dropped a lot of weight in an unhealthy way. I shared that just recently I also lost an unhealthy amount of weight, but that I turned that around and have been increasing my caloric intake and have been exercising to help gain that weight back again.

She asked me why I lost so much weight, and me being me, I told her.

I told her about how things have been stressful for me lately with my living situation and with work. She told me that I should go to church. I then told her that my situation has improved drastically and that things are going great. She said that I should still go to church anyways... Now, I should have left it at that. Hell, I should have left it a while back.

So I kind of chuckled a little and told her how she reminded me of my mom, and that she was always trying to get me to go to church, too. She said "Well, why don't you listen to her?" So, I told her that I don't believe, and that I haven't even told her that I don't believe yet. She then said "She doesn't even know? Oh dear..."

She looked mortified. I could tell she was disturbed by that notion...

I can't talk about that stuff when I'm at work, and I'll never make that mistake again. Still, when that situation was unfolding, I was cringing inwardly while in the back of my mind my brain was screaming out "What are you doing?! Stop talking!" I just couldn't stop, though.

Then later on, long after that whole situation, it dawned on me... I think the reason I did keep talking was because she did remind me so much of my mom. I think there was a part of me that was testing the waters to see what would happen if I did ever come clean to my mom with the information that I was an atheist...

I know she suspects that I've strayed away from god. She talks about getting right with christ every time I see her. For every holiday she gives me books related to christianity. For christmas, she gave me a book about christian near death experiences.

My mom would also respond in the same way that patient did; mortified. She'd also begin to fear for my soul, though I think she's already doing that... It really sucks that I can't just be honest with her and tell her how I feel about things.

I love the truth. My life is shaped by my search for it. I hate that I have to lie, but I will if I have to. It's not what I want, though.

If you love the truth, don't you feel like you're practicing the opposite of what you claim to live for by telling lies?
I understand that if such a confession makes your mom worried, you might feel bad or even guilty, but don't you think it's better than giving your mother a false impression of yourself, denying her the chance to know the truth about you?

 

[PureX]

I love the truth. My life is shaped by my search for it. I hate that I have to lie, but I will if I have to. It's not what I want, though.

I would consider that love is the greatest expression of truth. And let that be my guide.

Also, I'm happy to hear that your circumstances have dramatically improved.

 

[SigurdReginson]

If you love the truth, don't you feel like you're practicing the opposite of what you claim to live for by telling lies?

That is exactly how I feel.

I don't care about being a hypocrite, since everyone is to some extent. It's human nature. I do feel though that in existing in dishonesty I am dishonoring myself. It's a tricky situation to be in, because on the one hand by hiding this fact I make the situation better for others (as I perceive it), but I'm also worsening my own mental state.

I have a bad habit of doing this. I have a tendency to put others first at the expense of myself. I've been working hard on myself to start putting me first, and I've been actually excelling in this.

I feel like this issue is one of the last cases in which I put others first at my expense... It's a very skewed way to view things.

I understand that if such a confession makes your mom worried, you might feel bad or even guilty, but don't you think it's better than giving your mother a false impression of yourself, denying her the chance to know the truth about you?

And see, this is where the skewed aspect comes in.

In pursuing that desire to save folks I care about from harm, I've sacrificed my own happiness to help others even when they didn't need it. At the time I perceived that they did need my help, though. I was deceiving myself, because my first gut reaction to seeing folks I care about dealing with trouble is "ok, I'll fix this." I feel this also has the potential to dishonor others as well, since I bypass their actual needs (or whether or not they actually even need anything) in favor of what I think the situation requires when I get into that mode of thought; I get tunnel vision.

It's a very unhealthy way to be, and it's something I've been working hard at correcting.

What makes this case special, though, is that it has to do with my mother's mental illness. My experience with mental illness is that it's not rational, and triggering it can have unpredictable results... I don't wanna mess things up for her because I wanted to make myself feel better by unloading this burden onto her shoulders.

I do want for her to get to know who I am without the false pretenses... But she views things outside of her world view as genuinely evil... At best, she'd just dismiss what I'd tell her as me being misled by satan. At worst, she'd think her son was destined to live out eternity being tortured in hell.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

That is exactly how I feel.

I don't care about being a hypocrite, since everyone is to some extent. It's human nature. I do feel though that in existing in dishonesty I am dishonoring myself. It's a tricky situation to be in, because on the one hand by hiding this fact I make the situation better for others (as I perceive it), but I'm also worsening my own mental state.

I have a bad habit of doing this. I have a tendency to put others first at the expense of myself. I've been working hard on myself to start putting me first, and I've been actually excelling in this.

I feel like this issue is one of the last cases in which I put others first at my expense... It's a very skewed way to view things.



And see, this is where the skewed aspect comes in.

In pursuing that desire to save folks I care about from harm, I've sacrificed my own happiness to help others even when they didn't need it. At the time I perceived that they did need my help, though. I was deceiving myself, because my first gut reaction to seeing folks I care about dealing with trouble is "ok, I'll fix this." I feel this also has the potential to dishonor others as well, since I bypass their actual needs (or whether or not they actually even need anything) in favor of what I think the situation requires when I get into that mode of thought; I get tunnel vision.

It's a very unhealthy way to be, and it's something I've been working hard at correcting.

What makes this case special, though, is that it has to do with my mother's mental illness. My experience with mental illness is that it's not rational, and triggering it can have unpredictable results... I don't wanna mess things up for her because I wanted to make myself feel better by unloading this burden onto her shoulders.

I do want for her to get to know who I am without the false pretenses... But she views things outside of her world view as genuinely evil... At best, she'd just dismiss what I'd tell her as me being misled by satan. At worst, she'd think her son was destined to live out eternity being tortured in hell.

If that's what she genuinely believes then I'd say it's good she expresses her candid opinion.
And for you, well, I think the advice sun rise gave can be useful, though I can imagine leading the conversation away from her giving you advice is only a temporary solution, as she probably won't forget about it and still wants to talk about it later.

Whatever choice you make, I hope it'll turn out alright in the long run.