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Being a gay Christian

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I can live a gay lifestyle and be more of a casual Christian. I wouldn't have qualms with that. I smoke cigarettes and drink the occasional beer, yet I still have a relationship with God. Those are sins. So I'd be fine with myself if I had a boyfriend, I don't think God would cast me away. But if I am to be a Nazirite, I have to hold myself to the highest standards. For example, I can't smoke cigarettes or drink as a Nazirite. I must be in prayer and meditation constantly, I must read the Bible constantly. I must be fully committed to God's instructions and rules. If God has said I do not have the right to choose who I love, then I must accept it. If God requires me to be single as His servant, I must accept it as a Nazirite.

You present two different mindsets. In the first one, you rely on your natural moral instincts. Love is love, and God is love, so love is never wrong. As a secular humanist, I'm accustomed to deciding right and wrong myself by the application of reason to empathy and the Golden Rule. There is no homophobia in that worldview because why would there be? It's a concept in violation of the Golden Rule. I accept your sexuality just as I want you to accept mine. Reason says that homophobia is arbitrary and cruel, and imposes a difficult life on gay people for no reason, one that can lead to self-loathing and being beaten by homophobes. So, the secular humanist in me says that if you have a God instinct or belief, use your mind and heart, not holy books, to determine what is good and right, and thank God that you have the faculties to do so just as I am grateful to providence for the same - gratitude without an object in my case, but the believer can just thank God instead, and that can be his worldview, separate from organized religions and holy books. It would allow you to live naturally.

But you also present a second mindset, one in which you seem to want to be strictly regimented by what I consider arbitrary rules. Perhaps you want to belong to something and submit to it completely, something that seems difficult and therefore a test of character if you succeed, a test of self-discipline, like some military people seem to be drawn to, as when they try to be elite military such as airborne rangers or navy seals. If that's who you are, fine - put it to the test. See if you can conform to these constraints, and see if you were correct to be drawn to such a life. You'll have to decide that yourself using those natural moral intuitions. If the lifestyle doesn't fit, if it causes you to be in conflict with yourself, or never finding satisfaction, you will have to choose between ongoing conformity and the cognitive dissonance it has created, or breaking away.

This seems to be the plight of the pedophilic Catholic priests. They have chosen an unnatural lifestyle which they could not conform to. For those who could remain celibate, there might have been a sense of self-satisfaction in obedience and conformity, but for many others, it was constant cognitive dissonance trying to control what ended up being an uncontrollable urge, and the opposite of self-respect and self-satisfaction. There was just guilt and shame, then crime, and often public humiliation. These people chose the wrong profession, and apparently didn't have the strength to recognize that and correct the error by leaving the priesthood.

On the other side of the ledger, some of these Eastern monks seem to lead purposeful and satisfying lives. Do you know the word ataraxia, meaning, "a state of serene calmness"? That's the opposite of cognitive dissonance. One ought to be aware of the difference and why only one is desirable.

So, if you choose the regimented path, remember that you chose it, and can unchoose it if that path doesn't bring the purpose and satisfaction you seek. I did, and it was very difficult, but if you experiment and the experiment is a failure, you need to see that and take corrective action, not get lost in doctrine and sacrifice your judgment and reason to blind conformity that isn't doing what you had hoped, and may actually be making you unhappy, especially as a gay Christian.

Another good word: procrustean, or "enforcing uniformity or conformity without regard to natural variation or individuality." Think of the priests again. And good luck.
 

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
I'm just curious how you would go about this, given you have to give three offerings after you're done. Being a Nazarite is not a permanent state.
Ideally, I’d be a Nazirite until I die, unless I can chance upon a Levite to help me with those offerings to wrap up the vow. When I find my motivation to embrace God fully again, I will attempt the vow once more and be intent on doing it for life, and hopefully not lose morale again and break it improperly. This last time I was just a year away from my hair being long enough to dread into the required seven locks. Once I get far enough in to where my head gets dreaded, I think I’ll be at a point where I’m doing it for life.
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
My name is Samuel. My mother died when I was a babe but she left behind the testimony of an angel. She was a literal angel on earth, this I'm sure. My grandmother told me that my mother named me Samuel because of the Bible. So I read the Bible and found that Samuel and Samson were the only two Nazirites of the Bible (excluding Paul)
Samson was the one I loved...having a woman seducing him, thereby cutting his string of hair, symbolic for connection with God (top chakra closed by being seduced). Even from young age I understood this, and it happened to be my way I now know

Samson and Samuel's nazirite vows were unique from Paul's, however. Both of them were put under the nazirite vow before they were born. With Samuel specifically, it was the mother's idea to make him a nazirite.
My father had certain ideas for me, high ideals, but I discovered I rather and better follow my own way, at my own speed, not having others force feed me their ideals. They better do that themselves

So, due to the testimony that my mother left behind and the name she gave me, I understood her intentions for me in this life. I was to be a nazirite.
If that's how you feel then go for it. I love the Path of Penance, it really brings me close to God AND makes God talk to me
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I have tried taking the vow several times. Only two times amounted to any serious amount of time,
I love taking vows, but I better be careful. I need to really feel and be in tune. I better don't put the bar too high (I have this predisposition)

To be a nazirite means to be an active servant of God, it is part of the vow. I slipped into religious apathy, so I started drinking and shaved recently. The point is that I'm serious about being a nazirite, it is one of the main driving motivations in my life.
Sounds all very very familiar to me. Took me quite a while to find my balance in all of this

The question I suppose this whole post is leading up to is this: can I be a gay Nazirite?
Ask God

IF you want to be a Nazirite THEN God must love to confirm this personally to you, as only very few people choose this strict Path (and God loves strict Paths) . Of course only if this is also His Plan for you. Better be sure, my Master confirmed it to me (after ca. 10 years being with Him)
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...So what is the sin? Is it the love that a man feels for another man? Is that the sin, then? Certainly not. How can love be a sin, when love is God Himself? But yet being gay is a sin. But not the love part. Ah! So it must be intimate activities between two same gendered people that is a sin...

By what the Bible tells, this is the wrong thing:

You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. That is detestible.
Lev. 18:22
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Any person who sees fit to judge the sex life of another, should perhaps be directed to Matthew 7:1-5

Maybe if the Abrahamic deity had been clearer, and not wasted the first 4 of its 10 commandments on its expectations of the saccharine worship of its pets, it could have spared 1 to say that being gay is perfectly fine. In fact why not start with a commandment that made it clear the deepest pit of hell is reserved for anyone who harms a child?

Either deities are mysterious, :rolleyes: or the obvious omission of such moral proclamations are something to do with the misogynistic and patriarchal male dominated societies from which they emerged.

It's not that much of conundrum really.
 

Ashoka

श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
By what the Bible tells, this is the wrong thing:

You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. That is detestible.
Lev. 18:22

That verse has been analyzed on this forum numerous times. It's talking about pedophilia, not homosexuality.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
By what the Bible tells, this is the wrong thing:

You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. That is detestible.
Lev. 18:22
Who cares, an intense dislike of something is entirely subjective and therefore meaningless. If one uses adherence to archaic biblical bigotry, then you must think stoning unruly children at the edge of town is ok, and slavery?

You will have to do a lot better than simply quoting homophobic bigotry from the bible or quran, in order to justify it.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Christianity is not for everyone... because not everyone is willing to sacrifice enough, or make the necessary adjustments to their lifestyle and Weltanschauung. This goes for many other religions as well.
Hmm. If you act with decency, respect and inclusion towards your fellow-humans, what can religion add?
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Maybe if the Abrahamic deity had been clearer, and not wasted the first 4 of its 10 commandments on its expectations of the saccharine worship of its pets, it could have spared 1 to say that being gay is perfectly fine. In fact why not start with a commandment that made it clear the deepest pit of hell is reserved for anyone who harms a child?

Either deities are mysterious, :rolleyes: or the obvious omission of such moral proclamations are something to do with the misogynistic and patriarchal male dominated societies from which they emerged.

It's not that much of conundrum really.


Matthew 18:4-7
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Is being gay a sin? A protestant Christian will tell you "yes". I was raised in a protestant family so this post will focus on their specific beliefs.
Gotquestions is great site ... to get a good idea of what general protestant views are on topics.
Is being gay a sin? Is it a sin to be gay? | GotQuestions.org
To someone in the LGBTQ community, being told that your sexual orientation is akin to the sin of theft and r*pe is offensive. It certainly is. stupid site
If a Christian believes that homosexuality is a sin, they should question what about being gay is a sin.
Let's say, hypothetically of course, the Christian God is real and He has declared that gay is sin. So what is the sin? Is it the love that a man feels for another man? Is that the sin, then? Certainly not. How can love be a sin, when love is God Himself? But yet being gay is a sin. But not the love part. Ah! So it must be intimate activities between two same gendered people that is a sin. But wait! Suppose two men are not intimate in that way. There was a time when it was commonplace for people to wait until marriage. So two boyfriends, how can they be in sin if they simply love one another? I think the answer is lack of submission to God.
Is eating fruit a sin? If you ask Adam or Eve, they might say "yes". But its not a sin. In fact, eating fruit is healthy. Adam and Eve sinned by eating fruit, though. It was sin because lack of submission to God. In this way, being gay is a sin, if it is a sin.
The Christian God says we do not have the right to choose who we love. We must follow His parameters. They must be a child of God, just as you are. And of course, they must be opposite gender. There doesn't have to be anything inherently wrong with being gay. Could God had made it a sin because He demands our submission?
I recently discovered that I am a gay man. For me it is a dilemma. I know that I cannot be in a straight relationship, I have tried. I am gay. So I left my partner.
The dilemma for me is this. I intend to be a Nazirite.(an Israelite consecrated to the service of God, under vows to abstain from alcohol, let the hair grow, and avoid defilement by contact with corpses (Num. 6).)
My name is Samuel. My mother died when I was a babe but she left behind the testimony of an angel. She was a literal angel on earth, this I'm sure. My grandmother told me that my mother named me Samuel because of the Bible. So I read the Bible and found that Samuel and Samson were the only two Nazirites of the Bible (excluding Paul). Samson and Samuel's nazirite vows were unique from Paul's, however. Both of them were put under the nazirite vow before they were born. With Samuel specifically, it was the mother's idea to make him a nazirite.
So, due to the testimony that my mother left behind and the name she gave me, I understood her intentions for me in this life. I was to be a nazirite.
I have tried taking the vow several times. Only two times amounted to any serious amount of time, most recently i went without drinking, visiting my mothers grave, or cutting my hair for years. However, even if I do those things while under oath, I must be a ardent servant of God. So what if I don't cut my hair, if I am religiously apathetic. To be a nazirite means to be an active servant of God, it is part of the vow. I slipped into religious apathy, so I started drinking and shaved recently. The point is that I'm serious about being a nazirite, it is one of the main driving motivations in my life.
The question I suppose this whole post is leading up to is this: can I be a gay Nazirite? I have the option in my life to stay single. I am not my emotions. If my emotions dictate to me that I am gay, then must I abandon any romantic pursuits, if I am to be a nazirite? Is being gay a sin? I don't know, it's something I'm struggling with deeply. I grew up around homophobia and was extremely homophobic myself. I still am a bit. If it is a sin, it is a sin simply because God says so, not because love is wrong.
I can live a gay lifestyle and be more of a casual Christian. I wouldn't have qualms with that. I smoke cigarettes and drink the occasional beer, yet I still have a relationship with God. Those are sins. So I'd be fine with myself if I had a boyfriend, I don't think God would cast me away. But if I am to be a Nazirite, I have to hold myself to the highest standards. For example, I can't smoke cigarettes or drink as a Nazirite. I must be in prayer and meditation constantly, I must read the Bible constantly. I must be fully committed to God's instructions and rules. If God has said I do not have the right to choose who I love, then I must accept it. If God requires me to be single as His servant, I must accept it as a Nazirite.

I see you.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Is being gay a sin? A protestant Christian will tell you "yes". I was raised in a protestant family so this post will focus on their specific beliefs.
Gotquestions is great site ... to get a good idea of what general protestant views are on topics.
Is being gay a sin? Is it a sin to be gay? | GotQuestions.org
To someone in the LGBTQ community, being told that your sexual orientation is akin to the sin of theft and r*pe is offensive. It certainly is. stupid site
If a Christian believes that homosexuality is a sin, they should question what about being gay is a sin.
Let's say, hypothetically of course, the Christian God is real and He has declared that gay is sin. So what is the sin? Is it the love that a man feels for another man? Is that the sin, then? Certainly not. How can love be a sin, when love is God Himself? But yet being gay is a sin. But not the love part. Ah! So it must be intimate activities between two same gendered people that is a sin. But wait! Suppose two men are not intimate in that way. There was a time when it was commonplace for people to wait until marriage. So two boyfriends, how can they be in sin if they simply love one another? I think the answer is lack of submission to God.
Is eating fruit a sin? If you ask Adam or Eve, they might say "yes". But its not a sin. In fact, eating fruit is healthy. Adam and Eve sinned by eating fruit, though. It was sin because lack of submission to God. In this way, being gay is a sin, if it is a sin.
The Christian God says we do not have the right to choose who we love. We must follow His parameters. They must be a child of God, just as you are. And of course, they must be opposite gender. There doesn't have to be anything inherently wrong with being gay. Could God had made it a sin because He demands our submission?
I recently discovered that I am a gay man. For me it is a dilemma. I know that I cannot be in a straight relationship, I have tried. I am gay. So I left my partner.
The dilemma for me is this. I intend to be a Nazirite.(an Israelite consecrated to the service of God, under vows to abstain from alcohol, let the hair grow, and avoid defilement by contact with corpses (Num. 6).)
My name is Samuel. My mother died when I was a babe but she left behind the testimony of an angel. She was a literal angel on earth, this I'm sure. My grandmother told me that my mother named me Samuel because of the Bible. So I read the Bible and found that Samuel and Samson were the only two Nazirites of the Bible (excluding Paul). Samson and Samuel's nazirite vows were unique from Paul's, however. Both of them were put under the nazirite vow before they were born. With Samuel specifically, it was the mother's idea to make him a nazirite.
So, due to the testimony that my mother left behind and the name she gave me, I understood her intentions for me in this life. I was to be a nazirite.
I have tried taking the vow several times. Only two times amounted to any serious amount of time, most recently i went without drinking, visiting my mothers grave, or cutting my hair for years. However, even if I do those things while under oath, I must be a ardent servant of God. So what if I don't cut my hair, if I am religiously apathetic. To be a nazirite means to be an active servant of God, it is part of the vow. I slipped into religious apathy, so I started drinking and shaved recently. The point is that I'm serious about being a nazirite, it is one of the main driving motivations in my life.
The question I suppose this whole post is leading up to is this: can I be a gay Nazirite? I have the option in my life to stay single. I am not my emotions. If my emotions dictate to me that I am gay, then must I abandon any romantic pursuits, if I am to be a nazirite? Is being gay a sin? I don't know, it's something I'm struggling with deeply. I grew up around homophobia and was extremely homophobic myself. I still am a bit. If it is a sin, it is a sin simply because God says so, not because love is wrong.
I can live a gay lifestyle and be more of a casual Christian. I wouldn't have qualms with that. I smoke cigarettes and drink the occasional beer, yet I still have a relationship with God. Those are sins. So I'd be fine with myself if I had a boyfriend, I don't think God would cast me away. But if I am to be a Nazirite, I have to hold myself to the highest standards. For example, I can't smoke cigarettes or drink as a Nazirite. I must be in prayer and meditation constantly, I must read the Bible constantly. I must be fully committed to God's instructions and rules. If God has said I do not have the right to choose who I love, then I must accept it. If God requires me to be single as His servant, I must accept it as a Nazirite.

Are you Jewish like I am? If not, you are freed from being a Nazirite.

Some homosexual Christians deal with past trauma and reorient. Some are abstinent. Some are disobedient. Don't be disobedient.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
A matter of conscience and desire to be in full communion with their faith.

Again that is their choice, the idea a deity would be offended by consenting adults having sex is a pretty preposterous one though. as is the idea of an omniscient omnipotent deity caring who we have sex with or how.

The again I am an atheist, so I don't believe in any deity. I just wish people who did would not persecute others while invoking their deity as an excuse.
 
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