"Begotten", what does it mean?

[MyM]

Can I suggest the simple statement that ‘Begotten’ means ‘Taken up (To Become/Belong To as in An Adoption or Possession)’ which tallies with GOD saying to Jesus:

• ‘You are my Son - THIS DAY I HAVE BECOME YOUR FATHER’
• God ‘took up’ Jesus as his possession as a Son

‘Begat, Begot, Begotten’

Apostle Paul ‘Begat’ the run-a-way slave, Onesimus, as his own Son (Philemon 10):

• “I exhort you for my Son whom I have begotten in chains, Onesimus… ”

Onesimus’ master was Philemon. Paul ‘took up’ Onesimus as his own Son when Onesimus found Paul in prison and reverently and fully carried out all the works that Paul set him to do.

This ‘Son’ (Onesimus) of his ‘Father’ (in Spirit/Faith: Adoption - not procreation) is expressed also by Jesus who told the Jews that he was fully and reverently doing the works of God and therefore ‘God is my Father’:

• “what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.” (John 10:36-37)

Please also take note of the bolded text: Being ‘Set Apart’ is a CONSECRATION - which was the ANOINTING - So Jesus is identifying himself as the one who was anointed BY GOD at the river Jordan. And, although not a part of the discussion (yet!) - please note CAREFULLY that it was at this point and afterwards THAT GOD SENT JESUS INTO THE WORLD. (See also Acts 10:37:38)

Trinitarians will try to tell you that Jesus was SENT FROM HEAVEN BY GOD!! You see here that it’s not true. The sending was after Jesus was appointed as King, and High Priest at his anointing - an anointing which is the traditional Jewish act carried out to announce a person as a new King and/or Priest. Note even more carefully that Jesus had done NOTHING noteworthy before this point despite his mother’s attempt to pressure him! “His time had not yet come!”.

And as for ‘Having Glory WITH GOD (how can he BE GOD and be WITH GOD!) from the beginning’?

This is a crudely corrupted verse BY TRINITARIAN TRANSLATORS. The true verse says that Jesus is requesting the prize that AWAITED the one who fulfilled the prophesies that were from the beginning. Jesus is saying that he HAS NOW fulfilled those prophesies and is deserving of that reward/prize.

It would be interesting to see what a trinitarian has to say about the ‘Prize’ (Glory) that Jesus is supposed to have had with God… seeing that, obviously Jesus does not have the glory / prize / reward at that point … YET TRINITARIANS SAY HE IS GOD… God who HAS THE reward / Prize / Glory???

“Give me now what I already have and have always had???

How desperate is language, linguistics, reality, and truth, to produce such an unsubstantiated, squalid and nonsensical belief. And yet still believe that God is ‘Tawhid’

Did Jesus or anyone in scriptures say that Jesus is God, that Jesus is tawhid - No! Jesus did say that he and the Father ‘Are ONE’… how many Trinitarians are rushing to say that Jesus IS the Father… yet, if Jesus HAD SAID: ‘I and GOD’ are ONE …. But he didn’t and nor did anyone else in scriptures!

begotten doesn't work like that.

In all this time, no Christian has the audacity to say How God begets. Why is it so hard if they are saying it on their lips constantly? John 3:16 over n over again as if it brained into ya...I know that's what I heard constantly "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall shall not perish but have eternal life through jesus christ our lord." I was taught this constantly...not a sunday, sunday night, wed night and even visitation time on thursday went by....all the time....John 3:16 over n over n over.

Is it a shameful act??? I mean other people begat so n so n so n so all throughout the bible...so tell me, How did God beget?

 

[Soapy]

However, Jesus the God told him, Worship Me!

Ha ha ha….. No, Jesus did not say that!!

Oh my goodness. If Jesus IS GOD then why in heaven or on earth would Jesus be tempted to worship Satan.

Satan is a fallen SERVANT of God. Since when does a servant request his master and king worship him to gain what the master and king is the owner of?

SA Huguenot, you know that what you wrote was certainly not a truth - and, in fact, it was desperation from the very tempter himself that drew you to write what you wrote!

Please, withdraw that statement!!

 

[MyM]

I gave you the meaning.
Now you want an explanation.
You should realy clarify what you want.
I have been giving the meaning over and over, only to learn now you want to know how it happened that Jesus became the "monogenes" son of God.

Well, the Bible say that the Spirit of God will come over Mary, and she will be found with a Child.
If I look at other instances where the Spirit of God came over people, I find that their bodies changed in various ways such as Samson getting stronger, and diseases leaving their bodies etc.

Therefore the way Jesus was begotten was as such.
The Angel announced to Mary theat the Spirit of God will come over her :

Luke 1: 30: The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
Luke 1: 31 And now, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you will name him Jesus.
Luke 1: 34: Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
Luke 1: 35: The angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God.

The other reference is in:
Matt 1:18: Now the birth of Jesus the Messiah took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been engaged to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.

I hope this answers your question.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN!!!! ....OVERSHADOW ......what does it mean! Explain how God begets. Should be soooooo simple yet you cannot give me a precise detail with such a claim.

 

[MyM]

I did post it to you.
Why do you shout?

It isn't answering the question. All you did was write a verse.

What does Begotten mean. I didn't ask for a play by play on how Maryam, picked above all women in all nations, was overshadowed....that explains nothing.

What does begotten mean. It should be the easiest on your tongue and not a shameful act if you are honest. And yet, you can't say it.

 

[SA Huguenot]

WHAT DOES IT MEAN!!!! ....OVERSHADOW ......what does it mean! Explain how God begets. Should be soooooo simple yet you cannot give me a precise detail with such a claim.

It means, The Holy Spirit of God overshaddowed Mary, and changed her body so she could have a fetus without any sexual intercourse.
Just as the Holy Spirit changed the bodies of countless people in the bible.
You say I should tell you how I think it happened.
My opinion is that when the Holy Spirit overshadow your body, your body seems to me like a"spunge", and this Spirit enters in all the spaces in your body.
This allows the Spirit of God to control every cell and DNA of your existence, and can make muscles strong, remove malignant tumers, give you the power of prophecy by controling your brain and mouth etc.
In Mary's case, the Spirit overshadowed her body, controlled her body and manipulated her womb to create a cell with only the mother's DNA.
this DNA in that cell was further changed by the Spirit, to become XY chromosones.
There was no other DNA in Jesus' cells, except that of Mary!

Here is the evidence:
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Wow, in the beginning God said that Eve's seed will be the one that will crush the head of Satan!
Not the seed of the MAN!

 

[Soapy]

begotten doesn't work like that.

In all this time, no Christian has the audacity to say How God begets. Why is it so hard if they are saying it on their lips constantly? John 3:16 over n over again as if it brained into ya...I know that's what I heard constantly "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall shall not perish but have eternal life through jesus christ our lord." I was taught this constantly...not a sunday, sunday night, wed night and even visitation time on thursday went by....all the time....John 3:16 over n over n over.

Is it a shameful act??? I mean other people begat so n so n so n so all throughout the bible...so tell me, How did God beget?

God is NOT HUMAN.

GOD CREATES LIFE…

HUMANS cannot create LIFE.

I showed you the definition and you ignored it:

• Beget, begat, begotten … same root

It means ‘Taken up as in an adoption or as ones own’

God begot Jesus AS A SON when he said of Jesus:

• “You are my Son - This day I have become your Father’

That is an ADOPTION!!

An adoption is a ‘Taking up’ of another as ones own (Son/daughter/child or any relation). To BECOME the ‘Father’ (in this case) of another (a Son in this case)

And ‘Son’ means:

• “He who does the works of the Father (the one ordering the works to be done)’

Jesus is adopted as ‘Son of God’… Son of the Father, and tell us so when hd says to the Jews:

• “Howbeit you claim I blaspheme when I only said that God is my Father. If I am not doing the works of my Father then do not believe me!’

How much clearer does anything need to be to understand the definition of ‘Son’: To do the Father’s works!

And, as one doing the Father’’s works, Jesus is worthy to be called ‘Son of God’.

Concerning bring human, Jesus states himself as ‘Son of man’.

‘Son of God’ is not a reference to be being God… you will agree there is only ONE GOD, yes?

But there are many MEN! Jesus cannot be Son of all of them and in fact hd is sin of no human Father because hd us the CREATION BY the Holy Spirit just as Adam was - Adam who was also CREATED BY THE Holy Spirit of God and called ‘Son of God’ (Luke 3:38).

So you cannot say: ‘Son of God’ and ‘Son of Man’ as meaning ‘Is God’ and ‘Is Human’ since the reference points are not the same.

 

[Soapy]

It isn't answering the question. All you did was write a verse.

What does Begotten mean. I didn't ask for a play by play on how Maryam, picked above all women in all nations, was overshadowed....that explains nothing.

What does begotten mean. It should be the easiest on your tongue and not a shameful act if you are honest. And yet, you can't say it.

‘Begotten’ for God (spiritual) has nothing to do with PROCREATION!

They cannot answer you because they are misled.

Begotten IN HUMAN terms means ‘To create a child’. Hence we have the genealogies all saying x begot y (y was begotten by x) : a physical reproduction.

God is not physical - he is spirit … and therefore a begetting also must be spiritual: Hence AN ADOPTION IN SPIRIT OF FAITH.

“You are my Son: I am [now] your Father - this day I have begotten you!’ (Paraphrased for the purpose)

 

[MyM]

It means, The Holy Spirit of God overshaddowed Mary, and changed her body so she could have a fetus without any sexual intercourse.
Just as the Holy Spirit changed the bodies of countless people in the bible.
You say I should tell you how I think it happened.
My opinion is that when the Holy Spirit overshadow your body, your body seems to me like a"spunge", and this Spirit enters in all the spaces in your body.
This allows the Spirit of God to control every cell and DNA of your existence, and can make muscles strong, remove malignant tumers, give you the power of prophecy by controling your brain and mouth etc.
In Mary's case, the Spirit overshadowed her body, controlled her body and manipulated her womb to create a cell with only the mother's DNA.
this DNA in that cell was further changed by the Spirit, to become XY chromosones.
There was no other DNA in Jesus' cells, except that of Mary!

Here is the evidence:
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Wow, in the beginning God said that Eve's seed will be the one that will crush the head of Satan!
Not the seed of the MAN!

wrong.

you cannot say what it means because the word is CLEAR BEGOTTEN
the evidence is completely hogwash lol doesn't have anything to do with the word begotten.

overshadow is YOUR OPINION-you're actually saying that she was sired by God He came over her and ...... Any evidences that say how God got Maryam pregnant?

The word begotten means JUST THAT- -TO BEGET. By process of reproduction. TO BEGET.

In Islam, To attribute this unto your Creator is indeed blasphemous. He doesn't beget nor was he begotten. This is our Creator. There is no reason for all that man made wordings to prove Jesus was the son of God. In his time, he was as all those who worshipped their Creator. Just doesn't make them God. To say something so hideous about our Creator is wrong. All he has to do to create something is say BE! AND IT IS.
Allah says in the Quran,

“And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): ‘O 'Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: “Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?”’ He will say: ‘Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen).

‘Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: “Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things’”
al-Maa’idah 5:116-117.

 

[MyM]

God is NOT HUMAN.

GOD CREATES LIFE…

HUMANS cannot create LIFE.

I showed you the definition and you ignored it:

• Beget, begat, begotten … same root

It means ‘Taken up as in an adoption or as ones own’

God begot Jesus AS A SON when he said of Jesus:

• “You are my Son - This day I have become your Father’

That is an ADOPTION!!

An adoption is a ‘Taking up’ of another as ones own (Son/daughter/child or any relation). To BECOME the ‘Father’ (in this case) of another (a Son in this case)

And ‘Son’ means:

• “He who does the works of the Father (the one ordering the works to be done)’

Jesus is adopted as ‘Son of God’… Son of the Father, and tell us so when hd says to the Jews:

• “Howbeit you claim I blaspheme when I only said that God is my Father. If I am not doing the works of my Father then do not believe me!’

How much clearer does anything need to be to understand the definition of ‘Son’: To do the Father’s works!

And, as one doing the Father’’s works, Jesus is worthy to be called ‘Son of God’.

Concerning bring human, Jesus states himself as ‘Son of man’.

‘Son of God’ is not a reference to be being God… you will agree there is only ONE GOD, yes?

But there are many MEN! Jesus cannot be Son of all of them and in fact hd is sin of no human Father because hd us the CREATION BY the Holy Spirit just as Adam was - Adam who was also CREATED BY THE Holy Spirit of God and called ‘Son of God’ (Luke 3:38).

So you cannot say: ‘Son of God’ and ‘Son of Man’ as meaning ‘Is God’ and ‘Is Human’ since the reference points are not the same.

lol I don't believe Jesus as the legitimate son of God Allah is the only one worthy of worship. Jesus was sent as a messenger to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[MyM]

‘Begotten’ for God (spiritual) has nothing to do with PROCREATION!

They cannot answer you because they are misled.

Begotten IN HUMAN terms means ‘To create a child’. Hence we have the genealogies all saying x begot y (y was begotten by x) : a physical reproduction.

God is not physical - he is spirit … and therefore a begetting also must be spiritual: Hence AN ADOPTION IN SPIRIT OF FAITH.

“You are my Son: I am [now] your Father - this day I have begotten you!’ (Paraphrased for the purpose)

No one said she was begotten with spirit. The word is BEGOTTEN. People read it all the time. They hear it all the time. Begotten Begotten Begotten. I betcha it was even misquoted from Greek lol like many verses in the Bible....example...the term for god and satan in the Bible. One place they use it for God, another place for satan yet they are two different words and they use the same word meaning both. To the ordinary person who reads the Bible, they would never be able to decipher what they are reading. It's just so messed up.

To say God begets means PROCESS OF REPRODUCTION....you have it all over in the Bible.

In many books especially in the old testament...that the word BEGET is used. ...means EXACTLY WHAT IT IS ENTAILING. Over 21 times I can find the word beget. But when you attribute it to God begetting you change the meaning to "spirit". I say, those who are preaching begotten to people need to stop saying that word for Allah does NOT BEGET NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Any evidences that say how God got Maryam pregnant?

Yes, The Holy Ghost changed Mary's body.
Not like the filthy version in the Quran.

 

[SA Huguenot]

wrong.

you cannot say what it means because the word is CLEAR BEGOTTEN
the evidence is completely hogwash lol doesn't have anything to do with the word begotten.

overshadow is YOUR OPINION-you're actually saying that she was sired by God He came over her and ...... Any evidences that say how God got Maryam pregnant?

The word begotten means JUST THAT- -TO BEGET. By process of reproduction. TO BEGET.

In Islam, To attribute this unto your Creator is indeed blasphemous. He doesn't beget nor was he begotten. This is our Creator. There is no reason for all that man made wordings to prove Jesus was the son of God. In his time, he was as all those who worshipped their Creator. Just doesn't make them God. To say something so hideous about our Creator is wrong. All he has to do to create something is say BE! AND IT IS.
Allah says in the Quran,

“And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): ‘O 'Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: “Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?”’ He will say: ‘Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen).

‘Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: “Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things’”
al-Maa’idah 5:116-117.

Please do not attribute the Quran as authorative over the Bible.
If you want to speak about the Bible, speak from it.
It is a fact that the Quran does not hold water concerning the nature of the Trinity, the crucifixion of Jesus and all the other historical detail in the Bible.
Therefore, to tell me what Allah says 600 years after Jesus, is silly!

And, to tell me that God can not have a Son, is Blasphemy!
God has a Spirit, a Word and an existence called the Father.

 

[SA Huguenot]

lol I don't believe Jesus as the legitimate son of God Allah is the only one worthy of worship. Jesus was sent as a messenger to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Well, I can NEVER WORSHIP ANOTHER GOD EXCEPT YHWH, the only God!
Period.
Jesus, the Holyghost, and the Father ARE NOT 3 GODS AS YOU TRIY TO TELL ME IT IS!
His Name is THWH.
He has a Spirit!
He has a Word!
One God.
Just like you have a body, a spirit and a mind.

Allah is some other god that is not in the Bible, hterefore, If I were to worship Allah, I would make him equal to YHWH.
and that is IDOLATORY!

 

[SA Huguenot]

To say God begets means PROCESS OF REPRODUCTION....you have it all over in the Bible.

AND THE WORD MONOGENES MEANS:
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship."
I gave you a link to the Greek explanation.

Why dont you teach me what you think:
How did Mary get pregnant by the Holy Ghost overpowering her?

 

[muhammad_isa]

..to tell me that God can not have a Son, is Blasphemy!

Haven't you got more important things to worry about?
How exactly, does the nature of Jesus affect my behaviour and your behaviour?

 

[muhammad_isa]

AND THE WORD MONOGENES MEANS:
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship."

Good. The word 'begotten' in common usage does not mean that.

 

[MyM]

Yes, The Holy Ghost changed Mary's body.
Not like the filthy version in the Quran.

omg yeah I know how you think. You can't give the meaning of the word begotten so you must bash it out and criticize ours.

• And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East,
• and had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit (Angel Jibril) and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man.
• She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allah) from you, if you do fear Allah."
• (The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son."
• She said, ‘How shall I have a child seeing that no human being has ever touched me, nor have I been unchaste?’
• He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me (Allah): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allah), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allah).
• He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord says: It is easy to Me; and that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter decreed.
• Thereupon he called her from below her [saying,] ‘Do not grieve! Your Lord has made a spring to flow at your feet.
• And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you; it will drop on you fresh ripe-dates.
• So eat and drink thou, and cool thine eyes; and if thou beholdest the human beings anyone, say: verily I have vowed to the Compassionate a fast, so I shall not speak today to any human being.
• And she came to her people carrying him. (Her people) said: “O Mary! Surely you have done a strange (bad) thing”.
• O sister of Aaron! Your father was not a wicked man, nor was your mother an unchaste woman.
• Then she pointed to him (baby). (They) said: “How should we speak to one who is a baby in the cradle”?
• (Baby) said: “Surely I am a servant of Allah. He has given me the Book and made me a prophet”.
• And be dutiful to my mother. He has made me haughty or rebellious.
• And peace be upon me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the Day I am raised up to life alive.
• That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting.

How Maryam got pregnant in Islam

“And she who guarded her chastity [Virgin Maryam (Mary)], We breathed into her [through Our Rooh Jibreel (Gabriel)]” [al-Anbiya’ 21:91]
The verse does not say how he did it and no one has the right to say otherwise.

Just like the likeness of Adam “So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me . [Saad 38:72]

“The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him” [an-Nisaa’ 4:171]

اِنَّمَاۤ اَمۡرُهٗۤ اِذَاۤ اَرَادَ شَیْـئًـا اَنۡ يَّقُوۡلَ لَهٗ كُنۡ فَيَكُوۡنُ
(36:82) Whenever He wills a thing, He just commands it “Be” and it is.



So you call this filthy??? God forbid what you call the opposite.

 

[MyM]

Please do not attribute the Quran as authorative over the Bible.
If you want to speak about the Bible, speak from it.
It is a fact that the Quran does not hold water concerning the nature of the Trinity, the crucifixion of Jesus and all the other historical detail in the Bible.
Therefore, to tell me what Allah says 600 years after Jesus, is silly!

And, to tell me that God can not have a Son, is Blasphemy!
God has a Spirit, a Word and an existence called the Father.

I have every right to hold the Quran over the Bible if I please. In Islam, Allah perfected the religion and confirmed all the messages went before it. The Bible has many discrepancies in it. Anyone can see that and look into it.

God is above having a son all he has to do is say BE and it is. He doesn't need sons or daughters. In Islam, we don't put God on the same level as man. It isn't befitting God afterall, He created them.

600 years and you don't even have the scripts for his time yet you have Paul's.

 

[MyM]

AND THE WORD MONOGENES MEANS:
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship."
I gave you a link to the Greek explanation.

Why dont you teach me what you think:
How did Mary get pregnant by the Holy Ghost overpowering her?

I will not humiliate Allah. Nor will I seek to say things that never happened the way the Bible describes it.

Maryam was chosen above all women of all nations. Very respectable chase virgin who was known as a religious respectable child.

 

[Etritonakin]

It gets tricky when we read such things as "In the beginning" -because it does not always have to refer to the same point -much less the very beginning point.
It can just mean prior to whatever is being discussed afterward.

It is also possible that there is NOT a beginning to existence, but there IS a beginning to development.

If not a self-replication of either a developing or always-complex God at some point, then they would have always developed/existed in tandem -but that raises the question of why the Father is in authority. Being the original self/self-awareness would make that the default state.

Christ was definitely begotten by his experience on Earth -so he was technically born as man and born again -as one who had qualified for/was prepared for his future by experience, suffering as we generally do, etc. -and being made a spirit again..... regardless of his exact origin.