Before god

[Dan Mellis]

This is more directed towards theists who accept that humans evolved from apes etc - the answer from creationists seems obvious.

There was a time where religion hadn't really been formed as we recognise it today - especially monotheism.

My question is, in those ancient times as homosapiens were taking their first steps as a species the notion of a god hadn't necessarily been concieved. If thats the case, how would you reconcile this with your faith?

Millenia passed without reference to judaism or a singular god. Its most likely we worshipped the sun and moon. We can see similar (not the same) things in native american/amazonian tribalism which is a reasonable analogy to human prehistoric society.

If god is omnipresent and eternal, how could it be that there was a time that people didn't subscribe to the god of abraham?

 

[SalixIncendium]

1. Assumed premise is assumed (unless you’re one of the rare reincarnations that remembers being one of those first homosapiens or one of their immediate predecessors).

2. I don’t operate on faith. I prefer experience.

 

[Ellen Brown]

This is more directed towards theists who accept that humans evolved from apes etc - the answer from creationists seems obvious.

There was a time where religion hadn't really been formed as we recognise it today - especially monotheism.

My question is, in those ancient times as homosapiens were taking their first steps as a species the notion of a god hadn't necessarily been concieved. If thats the case, how would you reconcile this with your faith?

Millenia passed without reference to judaism or a singular god. Its most likely we worshipped the sun and moon. We can see similar (not the same) things in native american/amazonian tribalism which is a reasonable analogy to human prehistoric society.

This being the case, how did god become a "thing" if it wasn't invented by people?

You have just posed a self answering question, and the solution is within you. I am sad that those who do not believe in a Creator want those who disagree to join them.

 

[dingdao]

? Egyptian mythology
1000 bce Hinduism develops as a conflation of several local religions (Rig Veda).
800 bce Orpheus - Greek Pantheon
500 bce Kung Fu Tse (Confucious), Lao Tse, Socrates, Jina Vardhamana Mahavira (Jainism), Gautama Siddhartha (Buddha)

Orpheus is just the earliest one for which we have definite records.

So, as I see it, Religion goes way back into pre-history. For a cynical note, it comes in handy to keep the masses in line. So it is in the leader's interest to have divine justification.

 

[Dan Mellis]

? Egyptian mythology
1000 bce Hinduism develops as a conflation of several local religions (Rig Veda).
800 bce Orpheus - Greek Pantheon
500 bce Kung Fu Tse (Confucious), Lao Tse, Socrates, Jina Vardhamana Mahavira (Jainism), Gautama Siddhartha (Buddha)

Orpheus is just the earliest one for which we have definite records.

So, as I see it, Religion goes way back into pre-history. For a cynical note, it comes in handy to keep the masses in line. So it is in the leader's interest to have divine justification.

Maybe I could have been clearer. My point was that if God is omnipresent and eternal, how could there ha e been a time when people didn't believe? I rambled a bit but thats my point haha

 

[Dan Mellis]

You have just posed a self answering question, and the solution is within you. I am sad that those who do not believe in a Creator want those who disagree to join them.

What do you mean, the solution is within me? I am sad that those who reject science and reason want those who dont to join them.

 

[Dan Mellis]

1. Assumed premise is assumed (unless you’re one of the rare reincarnations that remembers being one of those first homosapiens or one of their immediate predecessors).

2. I don’t operate on faith. I prefer experience.

I need to edit my post, I havent been clear

 

[George-ananda]

This being the case, how did god become a "thing" if it wasn't invented by people?

God should be seen more as a concept that we can never get our heads around than a 'thing'. Our ability to understand and our understanding evolves.

 

[Dan Mellis]

God should be seen more as a concept that we can never get our heads around than a 'thing'. Our ability to understand and our understanding evolves.

But our ability to understand hasnt evolved in the timescales we're talking about here. In fact, there are things the ancient, pre-abrahamic people knew that we can't quite figure out today.

 

[George-ananda]

But our ability to understand hasnt evolved in the timescales we're talking about here. In fact, there are things the ancient, pre-abrahamic people knew that we can't quite figure out today.

Each tribe tradition had its own evolution that to varying degrees used the wisdom of those that came before. And it evolves that way. And is evolving today.

 

[Brickjectivity]

This is more directed towards theists who accept that humans evolved from apes etc - the answer from creationists seems obvious.

There was a time where religion hadn't really been formed as we recognise it today - especially monotheism.

My question is, in those ancient times as homosapiens were taking their first steps as a species the notion of a god hadn't necessarily been concieved. If thats the case, how would you reconcile this with your faith?

Millenia passed without reference to judaism or a singular god. Its most likely we worshipped the sun and moon. We can see similar (not the same) things in native american/amazonian tribalism which is a reasonable analogy to human prehistoric society.

If god is omnipresent and eternal, how could it be that there was a time that people didn't subscribe to the god of abraham?

Many people have trouble with this, and I used to until I learned some things that helped. First of all, I have learned that since I am not Jewish I don't technically know what Abraham believes about God. I can look into it, and I have done some of that. Secondly, ministers lie. They lie and get payed for it, so they do it as needed. That is hard to accept, but its abundantly attested to both in modern times and in ancient ones. The Jewish books of the prophets account that even back then this was a constant problem. The NT authors say this is a problem and will continue to be. In other words, ministers always have been a huge source of misinformation and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Once you realize that and become free from the constant babbling of ministers you become free to think about things such as how God and evolution coincide, and that realization usually starts with taking a step back from assumptions about God. I myself realize there is God and then there are the assumptions people make, and in a way that means there are two not one. There is the approximate expectation people have and then there is the real thing which people can only claim to know about.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I need to edit my post, I havent been clear

This one thinks and takes responsibility for what he says. I like him already!

 

[sun rise]

This being the case, how did god become a "thing" if it wasn't invented by people?

Our concept of a God separate from us and the world was not always an intellectual concept. People worshiped an immanent God present in nature and manifestations of the divine as many rather than viewed as a transcendent "being" separate from creation.

All of this speaks to people's intellectual constructs about divinity, not to whether or not divinity exists.

 

[sun rise]

One other thing occurred to me. Something I read in a Facebook Kabbalah group:

The Creator - Come and See

Various religions depict the Creator as something outside of us. But Kabbalah explains that it is forbidden to imagine the Creator as an image of any kind, that the Creator is a quality that exists within each of us.

The Creator is the quality of love and bestowal. The meaning of the word “Creator” (Borre in Hebrew) is “Come and See” (Bo u Re’e), meaning come and discover this quality within you.

There is no external, foreign element for whom we work! We work on correcting ourselves, on attaining the qualities of love and giving, the Creator.

Around two thousand years ago, we lost the feeling of the Creator—we were exiled and lost the true picture of the world. We began to think that the Creator was someone who existed separately from us, rather than a quality that appeared within us.

Instead of depicting the Creator as the primary and foremost quality of Creation, which clothes within us, we began to think of Him as a separate and foreign entity.

Rav Michael Laitman

 

[Salvador]

Maybe I could have been clearer. My point was that if God is omnipresent and eternal, how could there ha e been a time when people didn't believe? I rambled a bit but thats my point haha

I consider God as being our Genetic Code's creator; the numeric and semantic message of "037" that's been embedded in our genetic coding by our Creator gets conveyed to me who computes with a base 10 numeric system. This mark of extraterrestrial intelligent in our genetic coding is evident to me by how each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37 Hence, the meaningful numeric and semantic message of 037 gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us present day Earthling human beings with our genetic code invented by a superior intelligence beyond that of anybody presently bound to Earth.

The significance of the semantic message "037" embedded in our genetic coding is well-explained in the following journal articles: .
Biosystems Volume 70, Issue 3, August 2003, Pages 187-209 "Arithmetic inside the universal genetic code" Author: Vladimir I. shCherbak
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...4703000662

NeuroQuantology | December 2011 | Vol 9 | Issue 4 | Page 702-715 Masic, Natasa Nested Properties of shCherbak’s PQ 037 and (Biological) Coding/Computing Nested Numeric/Geometric/Arithmetic Propertiesof shCherbak’s Prime Quantum 037 as a Base of (Biological) Coding/Computing
https://www.researchgate.net/public...m_037_as_a_Base_of_Biological_CodingComputing

I suspect God, our genetic code's creator, likely is not an omnipotent, omniscient, highly benevolent supernatural theistic deity. God, whoever tagged us with their mark of intelligence in our genetic coding, might be a team of futuristic post human simulators conducting an ancestral simulation of which we are experiencing as the simulated conscious beings who are the simulated ancestors of our simulators. Another possibility I've seriously considered is God, our genetic code's creator, might belong to a very technologically advanced extraterrestrial civilization having directed panspermia to Earth.

 

[Windwalker]

This is more directed towards theists who accept that humans evolved from apes etc - the answer from creationists seems obvious.

While I don't care for the term theist, as that suggests a certain view of the Divine, I will use the term God to speak of Absolute Reality, which is good enough of a word. I don't see God as an entity in some anthropomorphic sense.

There was a time where religion hadn't really been formed as we recognise it today - especially monotheism.

My question is, in those ancient times as homosapiens were taking their first steps as a species the notion of a god hadn't necessarily been concieved. If thats the case, how would you reconcile this with your faith?

Here's how. Evolution. Man's earliest conceptualizations to relate their own being in the world against the backdrop of existence itself began in rudimentary stages, which later developed to more and more sophisticated views.

Millenia passed without reference to judaism or a singular god. Its most likely we worshipped the sun and moon. We can see similar (not the same) things in native american/amazonian tribalism which is a reasonable analogy to human prehistoric society.

If you'd like a better researched explanation I'd direct for starters to Jean Gebser. Here's a quick overview outlining the various stages our worldviews and conceptualization of reality has changed from the earlier primitive forms to what we have today. The basic stages he outlines here are Archaic, Magic, Mythic, Rational, and Integral structures. There's a great deal of others who get into this as well.

AN OVERVIEW OF THE WORK OF JEAN GEBSER

This being the case, how did god become a "thing" if it wasn't invented by people?

I see it as mankind confronted with the Infinite, which is Reality beyond themselves and their grasp. All the rest are ways to try to speak to that through ever-evolving modes of perception. It all points to the same thing, Reality itself.

 

[Nimos]

Maybe I could have been clearer. My point was that if God is omnipresent and eternal, how could there ha e been a time when people didn't believe? I rambled a bit but thats my point haha

I don't think you ramble, your question is very clear and reasonable, I think

I do however think that if you want to get closer to getting an answer to your original question and are interested in learning some history at the same time, that you should watch these open lectures or at least the first few ones from Yale university about the history and origins of the Hebrew bible. It consist of 24 lectures in total which are quite interesting.

 

[Jos]

I myself realize there is God and then there are the assumptions people make, and in a way that means there are two not one.

So what is God like then?

 

[dybmh]

If god is omnipresent and eternal, how could it be that there was a time that people didn't subscribe to the god of abraham?

I view creation as a story, and God is the author.

The time before Abraham is part of the story.

 

[Dan Mellis]

I view creation as a story, and God is the author.

The time before Abraham is part of the story.

I assume you aren't someone who believes that non-believers go to hell? If so, great news if not, does that mean god deliberately didnt reveal himself to a bunch of people and sent them to hell for it?