1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Bechdel Test- Gender Bias in Movies

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Penumbra, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. Falvlun

    Falvlun Earthbending Lemur
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    12,524
    Ratings:
    +2,316
    Regarding classics vs modern, it's also important to remember that some of the "new" movies are rehashed old stories, or based off of books written a while ago.

    So there's likely to be a bit of a lag effect as old-time gender roles still exist in older written material.
     
  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    211,732
    Ratings:
    +79,905
    Religion:
    Atheist
  3. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    7,337
    Ratings:
    +1,294
    Kinda reminds me of a picture I saw once of a Black kid and a White kid sat using crayons together at a table in Pre-school. The Black kid asks the White kid to pass him the "Skin coloured" crayon, and the White kid simply freezes - unable to decide what to do.
     
  4. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    211,732
    Ratings:
    +79,905
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Easy.....skin color is yellow.
     
  5. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    7,337
    Ratings:
    +1,294
    LOL @ the uploader of that video recording the scene using a Camcorder recording the TV set :biglaugh:

    Anyhow "Get away from her you b1tch!" was always a classic line. ^_^
     
  6. Penumbra

    Penumbra Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    14,932
    Ratings:
    +1,441
    Interestingly, Terminator 2 passes the Bechdel test while the newest one, Terminator Salvation, does not.

    Terminator 1: Fail
    Terminator 2: Pass
    Terminator 3: Pass
    Terminator S: Fail
     
  7. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    7,337
    Ratings:
    +1,294
    Out of curiosity, at which point in T2 do two Women talk to each other? Off the top of my head I can't rememb...... oh wait..... the female security guard at the Mental Hospital tells Sarah to calm down?

    Miles' Wife pleads with Sarah not to kill her husband? :shrug:

     
  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    211,732
    Ratings:
    +79,905
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Your last point is the best example. But this is where the test fails in discerning gender bias, IMO.
    In T2, the male & female characters have roles & dialogue unrelated to gender stereotypes.
    Moreover, it avoids the modern PC cliche that the small martial arts trained female can beat up
    big guys. The movie carefully makes Sara's effective violence against guards look plausible.
     
  9. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    12,246
    Ratings:
    +2,271
    Perhaps i am being too naive. But i suspect nearly everyone knows about it already.
    Most people just don't care (enough) about it.
     
  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    211,732
    Ratings:
    +79,905
    Religion:
    Atheist
    It is my favorite line of all time. There is so much history between Ripley, her daughter, Newt, the queen's eggs, & the queen herself. Plus, it's clearly a line designed to be a "line", rather than something a real person would say in that situation. It's as though the entire great story exists for the purpose of that moment. 90% of the movie is subtley interesting wordsmithery. Were it in iambic pentameter, Shakespeare would be dethroned.
     
    #130 Revoltingest, Apr 21, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  11. freethinker44

    freethinker44 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    5,608
    Ratings:
    +1,151
    I'm pretty sure the first one should pass. I distinctly remember Sarah talking to her roommate and female coworkers.
     
  12. WyattDerp

    WyattDerp Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2013
    Messages:
    765
    Ratings:
    +63
    Which doubly sucks because in the books, easily the strongest characters are Trillian and Fenchurch. Ford and Zaphod are just irresponsible drinkers getting lucky all the time, Arthur is constantly worried, scared and frustrated... come to think of it, the only male person in that book who isn't a complete fool is Slartibartfast, at least from the top off my head, and he's not exactly a hero. Trillian on the other hand saves the whole galaxy from destruction by hugging a confused guy on Krikkit (while the rest of the group is apprehensive, she's bold and takes control, and not in a "repeating the worst mistakes of men" style either). I'd say it's mostly about mostly about insanity, pettyness, giving and receiving orders, greed and war... so of course it has mostly dudes in it.

    I know this is about movies, but I felt the need to defend my precious, and I know I might be rationalizing haha :/ Maybe I should watch the movie again, but the book, as I recall it, has mostly little boys in it who play war and corporation.. the only grownups in it are women. Though admittedly they never get to talk to each other.
     
    #132 WyattDerp, Apr 21, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  13. dust1n

    dust1n Zindīq

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    20,432
    Ratings:
    +4,740
    Religion:
    Post-Anarchism Austin, TX
    Basically, yes. There are probably thousands of these things people have to deal with, even while I remain ignorant to most of them. :shrug: You just kind have to learn over time to learn from people their experiences, and not assume what those experiences are based your own. It's really easy to do. Kinda of the default setting of humanity. Just assuming everything and everyone has the same experiences as one's self, giving themselves credit for their incredibly wacky opinions.
     
  14. Penumbra

    Penumbra Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    14,932
    Ratings:
    +1,441
    From the website:

    "Sarah Connor talks to Miles Dyson's wife about the future and humanity. Although also present in the conversation is John Connor, Miles Dyson, and the Terminator."

    "She also talks to the guard about whether or not her escape will work."

    "She also has a conversation with the Mexican lady (Juanita?) when they visit the gunrunners, though it is in the background and muted, from the context it is unlikely to be about men."

    It looks like some people contest the rating of Terminator 1; that one may have a brief conversation too.

    So it looks like the only one that clearly fails on that website is the fourth and newest one.

    My co-workers are a bunch of engineering guys that like Star Wars.

    I pointed out once that in the entire original trilogy there are only three named female characters and none of them ever talk to each other, and they were surprised and shocked and had to think back to it and then say, "Crap you're right, there were almost no women in it! I though there were at least a few more than that..."

    I think most guys would agree that most fiction is more about males, but the ones I'm familiar with don't seem to be aware of the magnitude of the difference.

    That depends on the level of training.

    [youtube]Hn8Jrx6XKzU[/youtube]
    Female Grappler Chokes Guy Unconscious with Rear Naked Choke - YouTube

    [youtube]kBL7YUTRlpk[/youtube]
    Girl Submits Boy - Amanda Leve vs Wyatt Sellers at Grapplers Quest UFC Las Vegas 2012 - YouTube

    Also, I was present at a tournament where a woman entered a male expert division (which was allowed) and won.

    Women can win fights against guys. That first video in particular shows a huge difference in size between the two fighters. Smaller people generally have a tougher time but skilled fighters (men or women) can often beat larger men, especially if they have an experience advantage.

    In movies, both men and women action heroes are often depicted as being able to defeat multiple men with a small number of strikes, which is generally highly unrealistic.
     
  15. dust1n

    dust1n Zindīq

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    20,432
    Ratings:
    +4,740
    Religion:
    Post-Anarchism Austin, TX
    That's an incredibly accurate description of how I see it, and it's just one many ways these things manifest.
     
  16. dust1n

    dust1n Zindīq

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    20,432
    Ratings:
    +4,740
    Religion:
    Post-Anarchism Austin, TX
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    211,732
    Ratings:
    +79,905
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Achgrgh! Groundskeepers define skin color!
    Not doctors.
     
  18. dust1n

    dust1n Zindīq

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    20,432
    Ratings:
    +4,740
    Religion:
    Post-Anarchism Austin, TX
    You gotta case of the Irish Bias :D.
     
  19. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    18,858
    Ratings:
    +964
    Hahaha awesome!
     
  20. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    7,337
    Ratings:
    +1,294
    I guess the solution is two things: more Women involved in the writing and direction of films, and less gender-specific stereotypical attitudes regarding each gender: e.g. "Men can't be stay-at-home Dads" "Women can't be Mechanics" etc.
     
Loading...