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baseless attempt to disprove Reality

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
The theory of evolution, in essence, existed long before Darwin. It was known, in general, even by ancient peoples. Anyone who was a herder or farmer observed and understood breeding and the differences between natural and artificial selection. One could not be a successful farmer or herder without independently deriving these relationships from experience. Genesis also discusses the blood line or DNA of humans, from Adam, forward several thousand years.

Evolution does not deal with the formation of life, from scratch; small basic chemicals like water and CO2. These questions are connected to a different area of science called abiogenesis. Abiogenesis has never made life in the lab to prove their approach and assumptions are correct. Most scientists depend on a prestige affect. They give more weight to abiogenesis, due to lab coats and machines that go "bing", than it deserves based on verifiable data.

The Big Bang theory was originally proposed by a Catholic Priest. Talk about irony.

In 1927, the Belgian Catholic priest Georges Lemaître proposed an expanding model for the universe to explain the observed redshifts of spiral nebulae, and calculated the Hubble law. He based his theory on the work of Einstein and De Sitter, and independently derived Friedmann's equations for an expanding universe.

Catholic Priests and others educated by the Church, were many of the early pioneers who led to modern science. The Catholic Church educated it priests at the university level even before there were universities. This was an artifact of its Roman heritage.

Darwin's theory of evolution, which was just a redo of ancient breeder knowledge, was not fully accepted by the Church, because it was half baked. The original version lacked any knowledge of DNA. DNA would not be discovered for another 100 years. Science was ready to run with the incorrect version of evolution, mostly for political reasons.

Dark matter and dark energy are bandaids used to perpetuate theory that no linger fits new observations. This is inferred from the fact, that these materials have never been seen in the lab. Dark matter and dark energy are sort of a mirage. Like a mirage, we can see it from far away, but as you get closer, it disappears. It is an artifact of the current standard theory violating the Conservation of Energy. This violation has to do with the ideas of no center of the universe and relative reference. These theories, as applied to universe observation, make it hard to define a single energy balance, needed for energy conservation. Energy Conservation is one of the few laws of science, and trumps anything that is just a theory.

The underlying problem in cosmology and astrophysics is all the data we collect is based on energy signals. We use energy because of the speed and because it lingers in time. Energy is wavelength and frequency or distance and time. Einstein defined three parameters in his theory of Special Relativity; distance, time and mass. This theory is applied to space observations. However, we do not measure mass directly, but rather we infer mass from energy signals; distance and time. This disconnect between observation and inferred tangible reality, is creating a problem. The only object in the universe, besides the earth, that we have touched; mass, is the moon.

As an analogy, say we had virtual reality glasses. We can see what appears to be the world around us. However, if you try to touch anything, it is not really, there. Our sense of touch brings us in contact with mass, matter and substance. Our eyes can see what appears to be mass, even when mass is not there. Just because we infer mass from sight; virtual reality, does not mean it is part of tangible reality.

Let me give an example. Say we look through a telescope and see a star become a super nova. Based on the light we see, we calculate this happened 10 billion years go. Today, that physical star is long gone, but its energy signal is still there. The tangible matter of the star has long been dispersed in space, even though the energy signal shows it to be a compact event. These two scenarios; real time and historical, generate two different gravitational pulls. What we see, has nothing to do with its tangible reality of today. Since, we cannot directly measure mass, we can't do anything about this problem. We have to speculate, infer and extrapolate; compounding errors. Now we need a mirage bandaid.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Dark Matter and Dark Energy is a manifestation of the spirituality of Reality: it was simultaneously discovered and not found. Discovered on the influence of gravity on the stars (NASA research), and not found in CERN and underground detectors.
Not what CERN was looking for, but otherwise, that's-a spicy word salad.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Dark Matter and Dark Energy is a manifestation of the spirituality of Reality: it was simultaneously discovered and not found. Discovered on the influence of gravity on the stars (NASA research), and not found in CERN and underground detectors.

Not sure where this post is going, it is the subject to vague religious assertions, and misinformation, but it remains that it has nothing to do with the science of evolution. Including the misrepresentation of CERN.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Sorry, @questfortruth , but you are not offering something that can be considered in any way, shape or form.

There is not enough there to make any sense of. It is not even possible to reject what you say, let alone to accept that.
 

Bryozoa

New Member
What? We are long-long past what Darwin wrote about-- he had no clue about DNA or Epigenetics or any of that.

He had a good grasp of inheritance, due to the work of Gregor Mendel and others, though.


Mendel's studies on inheritance weren't widely known during Darwin's lifetime and were only rediscovered in the early twentieth century. Darwin had his own theory of pangenesis to explain inheritance through gemmules in the bloodstream. He and his very, very interesting cousin Francis Galton conducted experiments undertaking blood transfusions with rabbits to go about proving if the offspring of the subjects acquired inherited characteristics from the blood donor. It would have been fascinating to learn of Darwin's response to Mendel's work. I'm sure it also would have affected Galton's biometric studies of human hereditary and that novel theory he came up with after reading the 'Variation under Domestication' chapter in Origins, which he christened eugenics.
 
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BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
The Darwin's Biological Evolution is being used by wrong people as part in attempt to prove, that un-natural things are needless. Such attempt is the misuse of the Methodological Naturalism. After its completion, the God would be Scientifically Disproven (or as Dr. Friedrich Nietzsche would joyfully say -- killed). But it is far from completion yet, and new problems do grow in exponential progression. So, currently the Darwin's Theory without working Big Bang Theory is like the completion of the Venus statue out of marble without making the first hummer stroke. So, it is Nothingness, it is Death, it is the Fact of Wishful Thinking -- the wish is solipsism. Also, the Fermi Paradox is the conflict between observations (the SETI has not recorded signs of life activity in Cosmos) and agenda to disprove God. In conclusion, Death of God is a collection of an infinite number of ad hoc hypotheses. One of such ad hoc hypothesises is ``Valid'' Big Bang Theory.

...Or a working abiogenesis theory
...Or a working explanation for the existence of an eternal universe sans creation
...Or in the absence of their logic
 

Bryozoa

New Member
As far as I know Darwin didn't address abiogenesis, his main concern was with the gradual and insensible changes modification with descent bestows on varieties of species. He was simply proposing an evolutionary mechanism and quite a convincing one at that.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
As far as I know Darwin didn't address abiogenesis, his main concern was with the gradual and insensible changes modification with descent bestows on varieties of species. He was simply proposing an evolutionary mechanism and quite a convincing one at that.
Creationists have an honesty/competency problem when it comes to conflating abiogenesis and evolution. No matter how many times their error is explained to them, they just keep making the same false claims...
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Hey Idc about your post, but your signature..about that guy from centuries ago thinking he's outwitted God with a logic puzzle...It's flawed.
^^ You're failing to account for the possibility of true omnipotence...wherein the suffering is to teach about the good, etc. Sounds cheezy, sure. but is it malevolent for a mother to send her child to it's first day of school? Kid doesn't wanna go..Schools boring the whole time...but i bet you're happy you went to school now, huh mfer? Them old ancient mfers never know **** about whats going on buddy. Get with the time..

It's not like it's 1 guy enduring centuries of suffering, haha. That'd be overtly malevolent, technically, if we could prove intent. When you think about it as a whole, like yeah slavery is bogus stuff, sure it's easy to be overwhelmed...but it's simply not so simple.

Like it is possible that our sense of right and wrong are laughable and miniscule...our idea of suffering is a joke comparatively. A kid thinks a bed time is bogus...doesn't mean it's wrong. Old mfer ancient mfer thinks he's capable of outwitting a god. HAH! I'm not even overtly religious broh...yeh it's a spectrum..


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

~ Epicurius (341-270 BC)



FYI...ever debate? I don't have to prove myself, I just have to disprove you. A tie is better than a loss, buddy, and I didn't mock the opponents making a fool of myself.

Would you like some dressing for that Word Salad?

Perhaps you could start with "Using full sentences in an argument" followed with "Punctuation! It's not just for street art anymore!" and "Abbreviations-- when to use them, when to avoid them like the plague".

Your ... ahem... "argument" such as it was, falls flat. You assume you understood the entire context of Epicurius, which you clearly don't.

Finally? Calling someone a "mother-f****" right out of the gate? Is a sure fire way to get you put on the "ignore" list, and quickly.

Or worse: reported and booted.

Try toning it down a bit. Just a bit.

And buy a dictionary.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Mendel's studies on inheritance wasn't widely known during Darwin's lifetime and was only rediscovered in the early twentieth century. Darwin had his own theory of pangenesis to explain inheritance through gemmules in the bloodstream. He and his very, very interesting cousin Francis Galton conducted experiments undertaking blood transfusions with rabbits to go about proving if the offspring of the subjects acquired inherited characteristics from the blood donor. It would have been fascinating to learn of Darwin's response to Mendel's work. I'm sure it also would have affected Galton's biometric studies of human hereditary and that novel theory he came up with after reading the 'Variation under Domesticity' chapter in Origins, which he christened eugenics.

Thanks for the heads' up. I had totally forgot about Galton-- likely because his experiments didn't go anywhere. :)
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
The Darwin's Biological Evolution is being used by wrong people as part in attempt to prove, that un-natural things are needless. Such attempt is the misuse of the Methodological Naturalism. After its completion, the God would be Scientifically Disproven (or as Dr. Friedrich Nietzsche would joyfully say -- killed). But it is far from completion yet, and new problems do grow in exponential progression. So, currently the Darwin's Theory without working Big Bang Theory is like the completion of the Venus statue out of marble without making the first hummer stroke. So, it is Nothingness, it is Death, it is the Fact of Wishful Thinking -- the wish is solipsism. Also, the Fermi Paradox is the conflict between observations (the SETI has not recorded signs of life activity in Cosmos) and agenda to disprove God. In conclusion, Death of God is a collection of an infinite number of ad hoc hypotheses. One of such ad hoc hypothesises is ``Valid'' Big Bang Theory.
On the contrary, I believe the BB is a hypothesis that establishes God, not takes away from Him

While science scoffed at the idea of the universe bursting into existence in the blink of an eye, Christians and Jews believed that is exactly what happened. So, in my mind the BB is scientific confirmation of an act of God.

The so called evolution of the universe does not inevitably lead to the creation and evolution of life.

The fact is that abiogenesis, the spontaneous generation of life from non living matter, has never been proven, and what is pointed to as evidences for it is like holding a piece of electrical wire and pointing to it as evidence for the F 22 Raptor.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The Darwin's Biological Evolution is being used by wrong people as part in attempt to prove, that un-natural things are needless. Such attempt is the misuse of the Methodological Naturalism. After its completion, the God would be Scientifically Disproven (or as Dr. Friedrich Nietzsche would joyfully say -- killed). But it is far from completion yet, and new problems do grow in exponential progression. So, currently the Darwin's Theory without working Big Bang Theory is like the completion of the Venus statue out of marble without making the first hummer stroke. So, it is Nothingness, it is Death, it is the Fact of Wishful Thinking -- the wish is solipsism. Also, the Fermi Paradox is the conflict between observations (the SETI has not recorded signs of life activity in Cosmos) and agenda to disprove God. In conclusion, Death of God is a collection of an infinite number of ad hoc hypotheses. One of such ad hoc hypothesises is ``Valid'' Big Bang Theory.
Darwin is disproved by its own theory as being objective since it's evolving itself. That is generally taken as proof as to it's factualness and that's false. It's narrative of a narrow limited type and that is all.

That said interjecting santa Claus and bigfoot is an insult to the term god and is infinitely more lame than any science narrative and a joke by very confused folks reading stuff like the Bible that they have zero clue about.

The new testament wasn't written by clueless believers it's written for clueless believers. Belief, non belief, agnosticism has zero to do with anything especially the topic god thus zero to do with the topic evolution.

On that note yes unicorns are real we have photos
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
...Or a working abiogenesis theory.

Science has a working hypothesis for abiogenesis.


...Or a working explanation for the existence of an eternal universe sans creation
Science does not attempt to falsifiable any hypothesis whether the universe is eternal or not.

Science is not working explanation for the existence of an eternal universe sans creation.

...Or in the absence of their logic,

Assertion without logic.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
On the contrary, I believe the BB is a hypothesis that establishes God, not takes away from Him.

The Big Bang hypothesis does neither establish the existence of God nor the non-existence of God. I is simply one of a number of hypothesis concrning the origins of our universe.

While science scoffed at the idea of the universe bursting into existence in the blink of an eye, Christians and Jews believed that is exactly what happened. So, in my mind the BB is scientific confirmation of an act of God.

There is no evidence that our universe came into existence in the blink of an eye. The Big Bang hypothesis is one of a number of hypothesis for the orgins and none propose a beginning from absolute nothing.

The so called evolution of the universe does not inevitably lead to the creation and evolution of life.

'so-called evolution' ?!?!?!?! Your bias against science of up front and obvious.

Correct, Simply nothing is inevitable in science, except the Laws of Nature and and the nature of our existence, and

The fact is that abiogenesis, the spontaneous generation of life from non living matter, has never been proven, and what is pointed to as evidences for it is like holding a piece of electrical wire and pointing to it as evidence for the F 22 Raptor.

The hypothesis of abiogenesis is NOT 'the spontaneous generation of life, and nothing is proven in science. **mod edit**
 
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