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Baptism: How necessary is it?

Baptism: Are its functions unique to Christianity or part of other faiths?


  • Total voters
    24

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
In regards Christians and violence:

Christians have held diverse views towards violence and non-violence through time. Currently and historically there have been four views and practices within Christianity toward violence and war: non-resistance, Christian pacifism, Just war theory, and the Crusade (Holy or preventive war). The early church in the Roman empire adopted a nonviolent stance when it came to war since imitating Jesus's sacrificial life was preferable. The concept of "Just war", whereby limited uses of war were considered acceptable originated with earlier non-Christian Roman and Greek thinkers such as Cicero and Plato. This theory was adapted later by Christian thinkers such as St Augustine, who like other Christians, borrowed much of the justification from Roman writers like Cicero and Roman Law. Even though "Just War" concept was widely accepted early on, warfare was not regarded as a virtuous activity and expressing concern for the salvation of those who killed enemies in battle, regardless of the cause for which they fought, was common.[8] Concepts such as "Holy war", whereby fighting itself might be considered a penitential and spiritually meritorious act, did not emerge before the 11th century.

Christianity and violence - Wikipedia
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
The biblical phrase is about having a clean heart inwardly rather than outwardly. An another example is when Christ criticises the Pharisees saying they are like a cup clean on the outside but dirty on the inside. Matthew 23:25

I know. I did not mean the person does not have an "unclean heart", he just kills in name of God. For example in the Bhagavad Gita Arjuna was also taught that it was his Dharma (as a warrior) to fight and kill (even his own family). And he should offer it to God and the lesson was "God is the do-er".

So maybe this was also implied in the Bible verse.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
What purpose does baptism serve and is its purpose unique to the Christian Faith?
This varies hugely from denomination to denomination.

In some cases, it's merely a ceremony to denote that the person being baptized has made a commitment to become a Christian.

In others, it's a magical ritual intended to entice the Holy Spirit into entering the person.

In others, it's a magical ritual intended to appease God and stop him from sending the person to Hell.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Baptism appears to be a uniquely Christian practice, and part of the process of admission into the Christian Faith. It involves the use of water. The synoptic gospels recount Jesus being baptised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:9-10. Luke 3:21). It is considered a sacrament in most Churches. The ritual can involve sprinkling of water on the head or full immersion. Water can be a symbol of purity.

Baptism - Wikipedia

To what extent is baptism a necessary part of the Christian Faith? What purpose does baptism serve and is its purpose unique to the Christian Faith?

Perhaps its function in part is integral to other religions. Muslims and Baha'is for example have ablutions where they wash certain parts of their body in prayer before turning to their respective Qiblih each day in prayer.

The Talmud, not Tanakh, proscribes hand washing in Judaism. In the hand washing argument in the NT, Jesus again is defeating men's tradition and not scripture.

Baptism in Judaism is identification - a proselyte who becomes a Jew must be baptized and renounce all Gods besides I AM.

Baptism in Christianity is identification - a convert who becomes born again is identifying with Jesus as Deity.

Wish me "mazel" as I'm going to the Jordan River in about a week, for a "dip"!
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
Baptism appears to be a uniquely Christian practice, and part of the process of admission into the Christian Faith. It involves the use of water. The synoptic gospels recount Jesus being baptised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:9-10. Luke 3:21). It is considered a sacrament in most Churches. The ritual can involve sprinkling of water on the head or full immersion. Water can be a symbol of purity.

Baptism - Wikipedia

To what extent is baptism a necessary part of the Christian Faith? What purpose does baptism serve and is its purpose unique to the Christian Faith?

Perhaps its function in part is integral to other religions. Muslims and Baha'is for example have ablutions where they wash certain parts of their body in prayer before turning to their respective Qiblih each day in prayer.
To me Baptism is just a “social thing” in Mexico it is common to have a party with friends and family after the baptism.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Baptism appears to be a uniquely Christian practice, and part of the process of admission into the Christian Faith. It involves the use of water. The synoptic gospels recount Jesus being baptised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:9-10. Luke 3:21). It is considered a sacrament in most Churches. The ritual can involve sprinkling of water on the head or full immersion. Water can be a symbol of purity.

Baptism - Wikipedia

To what extent is baptism a necessary part of the Christian Faith? What purpose does baptism serve and is its purpose unique to the Christian Faith?

Perhaps its function in part is integral to other religions. Muslims and Baha'is for example have ablutions where they wash certain parts of their body in prayer before turning to their respective Qiblih each day in prayer.

The idea is: Before baptism and the sacrament comes repentance. Repentance is a wonderful plan. Jesus gives us His blessings but only if we repent. However we are all capable of repenting. It helps us the most and it helps Him the most. Repentance is probably one of the best things to talk about. Commandments include being industrious and all the basic principles to have a prosperous society.

Baptism is a symbolic step that you are willing to follow Jesus... for a person who is well enough initiated it may be very important to show this so that He can trust them as well, enabling Him to work harder with them to help them. Christ was baptized because He was the life making Him a model and sacrament renews baptism.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
As a rite of initiation what would you replace it with?

Baptist has become an integral and inseperable part of the Christian tradition, perhaps like the Temple and all the associated observances were for the Jews until it was destroyed in 70 AD. I can see why a faith with such rich traditions and sacraments would appear the best spiritual path for Christians. Muslims and Baha'is seem to do fine without Baptism but then we have theologies build around the Teachings of Muhammad and Baha'u'llah respectfully. Its not my place to tell Christians and Jews how to observe and practice their faith. It is useful to understand some of the essential elements though such as Baptism and communion for Christians and reflect on the temporal and eternal, and what is truly universal.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
This varies hugely from denomination to denomination.

In some cases, it's merely a ceremony to denote that the person being baptized has made a commitment to become a Christian.

In others, it's a magical ritual intended to entice the Holy Spirit into entering the person.

In others, it's a magical ritual intended to appease God and stop him from sending the person to Hell.

Spoken like a true atheist. Thank you.:D
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Baptism appears to be a uniquely Christian practice, and part of the process of admission into the Christian Faith. It involves the use of water. The synoptic gospels recount Jesus being baptised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:9-10. Luke 3:21). It is considered a sacrament in most Churches. The ritual can involve sprinkling of water on the head or full immersion. Water can be a symbol of purity.

Baptism - Wikipedia

To what extent is baptism a necessary part of the Christian Faith? What purpose does baptism serve and is its purpose unique to the Christian Faith?

Perhaps its function in part is integral to other religions. Muslims and Baha'is for example have ablutions where they wash certain parts of their body in prayer before turning to their respective Qiblih each day in prayer.
The text expresses "living water" which is pure animism its understood today monotheisticallly which is dead water? magically cleanses? Empowers? theoretically!!!!,and thus its all magic intellectualized nonsense but that generally is monotheism "we believe" nonsense. Like a new age movement gone bad.

the text is animistic expressession rerooting in pre literate history. All decent metaphysics does this regardless of tradition.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Is there an initiation process into these religions?

I converted from Christianity to the Baha’i Faith nearly 30 years ago. I’ve never been a Muslim though Baha’is believe both Muhammad and Jesus are Manifestations of God. The Baha'i Faith emerged from Islamic Persia in the 19th century as Christianity emerged from Judaism.

There is no initiation ritual in the Baha’i Faith other than a declaration of Faith in Bahá’u’lláh as the Manifestation of God for this day. For administration purposes Baha'i assemblies like to meet with those who declare to welcome them into the community but also ensure they have a basic understanding of what their declaration means. Far more important to a Baha'i is the recitation of an obligatory prayer at least once daily. That involves washing of hands and face before and turning towards to God in prayer. We should also read from the writings morning and evening if only a single verse said in the right spirit.

One of the five pillars of Islam is Shahada or declaration of faith.

Shahada
is a declaration of faith and trust that professes that there is only one God (Allah) and that Muhammad is God's messenger. It is a set statement normally recited in Arabic: lā ʾilāha ʾillā-llāhu muḥammadun rasūlu-llāh (لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله) "There is no god but God (and) Muhammad is the messenger of God." It is essential to utter it to become a Muslim and to convert to Islam.

Five Pillars of Islam - Wikipedia

Islam practises a number of ablution ceremonies, but none of them has the character of a religious initiation rite. Belief in the monotheism of God in Islam is sufficient for entering in the fold of faith and does not require a ritual form of baptism.

Religious initiation rites - Wikipedia
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Towards the East?

Towards the shrine of Baha'u'llah Akka on the outskirts of Haifa, Israel.

The-Shrine-of-Bahaullah.jpg

As Christian prayer is directed to and through Jesus, Baha'is take a similar approach to Baha'u'llah.

The Shrine of Bahá’u’lláh | What Bahá’ís Believe
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Baptism appears to be a uniquely Christian practice, and part of the process of admission into the Christian Faith. It involves the use of water. The synoptic gospels recount Jesus being baptised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:9-10. Luke 3:21). It is considered a sacrament in most Churches. The ritual can involve sprinkling of water on the head or full immersion. Water can be a symbol of purity.

Baptism - Wikipedia

To what extent is baptism a necessary part of the Christian Faith? What purpose does baptism serve and is its purpose unique to the Christian Faith?

Perhaps its function in part is integral to other religions. Muslims and Baha'is for example have ablutions where they wash certain parts of their body in prayer before turning to their respective Qiblih each day in prayer.

Baptism is necessary seeing Christ Jesus was baptized himself.
And all those that become followers of Christ Jesus will also be baptized in the same like manner.

In being baptized, what does it mean and why is it necessary to be baptized in the name of Christ Jesus ?

As for baptism goes all the way back to the time of Moses.
 
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