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Baptism for the Dead in the Early Church

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by dan, Jul 13, 2005.

  1. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    But that means the church is run on partial understanding. It also means we really don't have any connection with the original church, we just take what we can get from what they left behind. I find this to be a structurally unsound foundation for a church.
     
  2. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Dan,

    sometime you just have to choose your battles. So, if a man was baptised for his dead uncle Joe... who would it hurt? However, if you get the man all fired up about being a light, then he just might have converted good ol' Uncle Joe before he passed on. Rather than be sidetracked by a non-issue, he is working on the far, far bigger issue.

    As for churches having a "partial understanding", my friend that is par for this course. Check out what Jesus said about the churches in Revelations: only one had no BIG issue, and still they were encouraged to do even more! Your attitude about understanding and growth should be like the Apostle Paul:

    Philippians 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
    15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained. NIV
     
  3. angelmoroni

    angelmoroni Member

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    Baptisms for the dead was practiced in the early church. "Else what shall they do if the dead rise not at all, why are they then baptized for the dead" Peter himself said that. So the question then enters why was the early church performing baptisms for the dead? Well as part of Gods plan one must be baptized to inherit enternal life. What about the millions that have died without knowing or even hearing the name of God. Are they doomed to hell? No! During the 3 days that christs body was in the tomb where was his spirit? Peter once again gives us the answer....He went and preached to the spirits that were dead, in prison. So we can know that these spirits were those that havent had the chance of knowing God. They get thier chance just as we do. They have the ability to accept it or deny it, just like we do. God is a fair and just God. Thats why baptisims for the dead are still performed today with the correct authority of course
     
  4. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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  5. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    I just finished reading the article and it was very interesting (and long...). I could spend a year looking up all the footnotes. The part that is most pertinent to this discussion is towards the end under the headings "Christ Preached to the Dead" and "How the Dead Receive Baptism" although there are some interesting references to early Christians questioning how the dead receive salvation without baptism towards the begining of the article.

    It seems that this debate is not a new one to Christianity...
     
  6. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    There are no "second chances" after death..... just my opinion.

    "It is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27).

    Alma 34:35-36: "For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he does seal you his. Therefore, the spirit of the Lord has withdrawn from you and hath no place in you; the power of the devil is over you, and this is the final state of the wicked."

    2 Nephi 9:15: "And it shall come to pass that when all men shall have passed from this first death unto life, insomuch as they have become immortal, they must appear before the judgment seat of the Holy One of Israel, and then cometh the judgment and then must they be judged according to the holy judgment of God. For the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy . . . shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end."
     
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  7. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    Those scriptures are directed at members of the church who have already accepted the Gospel through baptism. Baptism for the dead is for those who died ignorant of Christ's mission or who were blinded by the craftiness of men. Try again.
     
  8. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    And I guess no "first chance" for many people, either?
     
  9. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm... how pleasant.

    Do you get a lot of non-LDS members who try to read, understand and learn the Book of Mormon.... and who know it well enough to quote it?

    Try again?

    Not likely.
     
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  10. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    I love it when you quote scripture Scott... somehow, I think that you and God have the SAME opinion on this. That's always a comfort.
     
  11. DeepShadow

    DeepShadow White Crow

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    I don't. With all due respect, Dan, our own church freely admits that it runs on partial understanding. We sing it every six months or so, in General Conference: "The Lord is extending the saints' understanding...." Line upon line, precept on precept, as we are able to understand, it is expanded. Why should we deny others the same privilege?
     
  12. DeepShadow

    DeepShadow White Crow

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    I would agree. There are no second chances here, either. It's all one continuous chance. Baptism for the dead is intended for those who didn't get that chance in life, for whatever reason.
     
  13. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    While it is true that the Lord continues to reveal things to us, the dispensation of the fullness of times is in no way guessing on how to run the church. The comment was based on their assertion that its perfectly ok for a church to be run by people who literally found what others wrote about the administration of the church and then pieced it together accordingly, with no authority or experience. Parley P. Pratt compares it to a a government official given the right to make citizens of foreigners. He keeps records and works under the direction of the president. He up and dies and is not replaced, then someone happens upon his records, realizes such a station existed, and resumes the duties without so much as an ok from one in authority; or any understanding of the administration of said duty beyond what he can deduce from the records. I believe that is not a sound foundation for a church.
     
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