Banned from Debates/Discussions/Chat for being Pro-Gay

[rainbowchristianqld]

OK. I can see that you're just not getting it. The love between two men mentioned in the Bible is always (to my knowledge) rendered using agape in Greek, not eros. This includes that from your OT examples when translated into Greek (which was done by Jews, not Christians and prior to Christ's Incarnation). The examples that you give, then, do not bolster your case at all as they specifically preclude sexual love. Adding more examples of the same won't alter this.

To your knowledge...cheers for that
There's several instances of the word "Love" in the NT as well )

You do have a point with relation to the times the Scriptures were written in (homosexual acts being, generally, promiscuous and often associated with pagan cults) but I feel that you are drawing conclusions that are not warranted. I said to you from the start that homosexuality is not a sin and, as homosexual sex acts were often accepted as part of normal sexual behaviour in ancient cultures, for instance Greece and Rome, there was actually no concept of an exclusively homosexual person to condemn. It was not and is not considered sinful to be attracted to members of the same sex. I wouldn't even consider it sinful to be in love with someone of the same sex (using eros here), but this doesn't alter the fact that homosexual sex acts are explicitly condemned, as are all sex acts outside of marriage. Verses explicitly condemning sex between lesbians and gay men have already been quoted here by others and so I will not repeat them.

Sorry, but you've just completely contradicted your self with that last bit... You just stated that the acts written about were "homosexual acts being, generally, promiscuous and often associated with pagan cults"... They don't condemn sex between lesbians and men in general and especially not in a committed/blessed/married relationship. (and you didn't address what I said about "How Marriage Changes" either...)

Finally, I'd just like to point out that I didn't agree with you at all on the quote from 1 Samuel. What I did say was that, if you used your rather poor translation of the text (that omits all mention of souls even though this is explicit in the text) then I could understand why you might think it referred to physical and not spiritual love. As, however, I think it's one of the worst renderings (what version is it from, by the way?) that I've seen, I cannot agree with your conclusions, however much I might sympathise. To be honest, it's always best to check a few versions of the text (and if possible the originals - though I can't read Hebrew at all, for me the Septuagint is the original. It's certainly older than the Masoretic Text) to see whether your favoured version is accurate or not. I'm afraid in this instance yours isn't.

James

Pretty much all the ones that I Quote come from my NIV mate... Are you saying "Your Bible is more Correct than mine?" or that "My Bible is lying?"

Most of the ones that I quote, I do check out the NKJ and the KJV as well, and they seem pretty similar. If one is easier to understand, I often use that one.

Concerning "Spiritual Love", I have found that spiritual love is an even deeper love than that of "Physical Love" (wether it's hetero or homo). If 2 men "bound their souls together with spiritual love" - no one would doubt that they were gay lovers or even seen as Married to eachother.... and as I said, David proclaimed that Jonathan's Love was better than any womans...

 

[rainbowchristianqld]

Sorry, this discussion has gone way off the scale in the wrong direction... If anyone has anything to say about the Original Post - let's start now

 

[michel]

Sorry, this discussion has gone way off the scale in the wrong direction... If anyone has anything to say about the Original Post - let's start now

So, basically, from:-

..............."It seems, Because of my view on "Helping Gay people" instead of "Condemning" or "Outcasting" them, some moderators/chat hosts etc... have decided to ban me from the websites, erase my posts or generally hound me with their anti-gay prejudices without even a "thought" that they might be wrong... (i'm kinda glad that this hasn't happened to me in person.... yet).

I'm not saying that I'm always 100% correct... or that my views aren't different to some other Christians. But I can't see the point of having a "Discussion" or "Debate" site when everybody that's aloud to reply has exactly the same views.

Any thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? etc..?

Wondering if anyone else has experienced similar things (either on the net or in person), for reasons of being gay or otherwise. Explain how you felt or how you dealt with it, how it made you feel, what the issue was, things like that."........................

I think that Todd (post#13) quelled your fears about being 'victimized' on this forum.
As that point has been dealt with, what are you actually wishing to discuss?

 

[Cynic]

There was a study where people took the sweat from the armpits of both men and women. The experimentees were of both straight and homosexuals (I believe they did not know who's sweat they were smelling). It was found that gay men actually respond to the hormones of other men, rather then the hormones of women. I am trying to remember where I read this, most likely it was in Scientific American or Scientific American Mind. So in this sense, being homosexual is a biological thing, and so it may be more natural than people think. I remember that one gay guy told me, that he doesn't know why he is the way he is, he just is.

Aside from this, life on an objective level is rather amoral (what I basically mean is neither good nor evil), therefore neither of them are absolute. Good and evil exist entirely on a subjective level. The amygdala in our brains identify who is good or evil instantly within miliseconds (as it's job is to identify hostilies within the environment). So when they identify you as being "hostile" (to their system and society), it is a reflexive response due to their perception and values placed on homosexuality, which is heavily influenced by the group or society which they associate themselves with. It then does not take much logic to respond the way they do once they've placed negetive values. Very conservative Christians will give you this sort of treatment, while liberal Christians may not, it really depends on the individual person. I've experienced prejudice, it's not fun. Most of all it makes you feel unloved, and isolated.

Even when I was a Christian (from a conservative background), I treated them with utmost respect, because after Jesus said to treat others how you would like to be treated.

 

[rainbowchristianqld]

So, basically, from:-

..............."It seems, Because of my view on "Helping Gay people" instead of "Condemning" or "Outcasting" them, some moderators/chat hosts etc... have decided to ban me from the websites, erase my posts or generally hound me with their anti-gay prejudices without even a "thought" that they might be wrong... (i'm kinda glad that this hasn't happened to me in person.... yet).

I'm not saying that I'm always 100% correct... or that my views aren't different to some other Christians. But I can't see the point of having a "Discussion" or "Debate" site when everybody that's aloud to reply has exactly the same views.

Any thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? etc..?

Wondering if anyone else has experienced similar things (either on the net or in person), for reasons of being gay or otherwise. Explain how you felt or how you dealt with it, how it made you feel, what the issue was, things like that."........................

I think that Todd (post#13) quelled your fears about being 'victimized' on this forum.
As that point has been dealt with, what are you actually wishing to discuss?

Good point michel... think there's another thread "Using verses" - for/against etc.. so (assuming you're a Moderator), might as well lock this thread eh

 

[CMIYC]

Its good to see Christians spreading love on face value, but the fact is, most of you would not vote for guy rights. For me guy issue is more then just a religious view. I for one detest any public display of sexual affection by anybody. What makes it worse, having to witness same sex display of affection. You all fear the same things as I do! What if your own child marries the same sex? Will it open flood gates for other perverse sexualities. Years ago, our children where reasonably safe going to play in parks or visiting public toilets, not any more. This is a direct result of our ignorance, and not protecting what is sacred.

 

[rainbowchristianqld]

For me guy issue is more then just a religious view. I for one detest any public display of sexual affection by anybody. What makes it worse, having to witness same sex display of affection.

What?, holding hands with your partner/lover while walking down the street is offensive now?
I live in the middle of London and see both homosexual and heterosexual couples everywhere, I don't see any of them snogging passionately while waiting for a bus/tube. I never see any of them doing anything more "Affectionate" than holding hands...

You all fear the same things as I do! What if your own child marries the same sex?

Do you not want your son/daughter to live a happy and fulfilled life with their "Soul Mate" or "Spouse" ?

Will it open flood gates for other perverse sexualities.

Why on earth would this happen? Heterosexuals are just as perverse as Homosexuals... Have you never been to a Straight Night Club etc...?

Years ago, our children where reasonably safe going to play in parks or visiting public toilets, not any more. This is a direct result of our ignorance, and not protecting what is sacred.

Childeren can still do that, just as they in the 70s/80s, very little has changed in that respect, maybe the places/parks near you have changed?...

This has nothing to do with homosexuals, homosexual sex or homosexual marriage.

My friend is a Sexual Health Nurse, and apparently the main people who use those places for their "Pleasures" are lustful people who "identify" themselves as Heterosexual.

 

[michel]

-MOD POST-​

​

Moved to 'General discussions'- seeing as the discussion is still ongoing, and appears to be centered on the topic of Homosexuality.​

 

[CMIYC]

rainbowchristianqld

I don’t mean to be a pessimist, but isn’t my view of general public? If you disagree, then, how come the majority of the world hasn’t accepted and given the same rights to homosexual as heterosexuals? When I said, will it open the floodgates for other perverse sexualities? What I meant was, dropping the tolerance level of one might encourage another. And don’t you think, I,” as a majority (heterosexual) should have the final say on what is accepted and what isn’t? Since when has the minority won a vote? You have chosen an alternative lifestyle it means just that.. Alternative to love is hate, alternative to good is evil. Is there any other way I could state my position on this matter.

 

[michel]

rainbowchristianqld

I don’t mean to be a pessimist, but isn’t my view of general public? If you disagree, then, how come the majority of the world hasn’t accepted and given the same rights to homosexual as heterosexuals? When I said, will it open the floodgates for other perverse sexualities? What I meant was, dropping the tolerance level of one might encourage another. And don’t you think, I,” as a majority (heterosexual) should have the final say on what is accepted and what isn’t? Since when has the minority won a vote? You have chosen an alternative lifestyle it means just that.. Alternative to love is hate, alternative to good is evil. Is there any other way I could state my position on this matter.

CMYIC; Quote.........." You have chosen an alternative lifestyle it means just that".............

That is unsubstatiated, and until proved otherwise a statement with is merely an unfounded opinion.

Quote....................." Alternative to love is hate, alternative to good is evil."...............
Are you inferring that homosexual love is hate?

 

[CMIYC]

CMYIC; Quote.........." You have chosen an alternative lifestyle it means just that".............

That is unsubstatiated, and until proved otherwise a statement with is merely an unfounded opinion.

Quote....................." Alternative to love is hate, alternative to good is evil."...............
Are you inferring that homosexual love is hate?

I ma referring to what alternative means,: it is opposite to what ever and opposite to love is hate and good is evil. I’m also saying, homosexual relationships have no potential to carry on the family gene. The life of a homosexual is stopped by nature and if nature stopped it, and nature is direct result of god. Then it is definitely against god and obviously it should be against Christianity.

 

[Mike182]

rainbowchristianqld

I don’t mean to be a pessimist, but isn’t my view of general public? If you disagree, then, how come the majority of the world hasn’t accepted and given the same rights to homosexual as heterosexuals? When I said, will it open the floodgates for other perverse sexualities? What I meant was, dropping the tolerance level of one might encourage another. And don’t you think, I,” as a majority (heterosexual) should have the final say on what is accepted and what isn’t? Since when has the minority won a vote? You have chosen an alternative lifestyle it means just that.. Alternative to love is hate, alternative to good is evil. Is there any other way I could state my position on this matter.

wow, a very deeply thought out post

just because the majority think one way doesnt mean they are right, change has happend - for instance the dropping of the age fo concent from 18 to 16 for gay sex, money has been spent by gay support charity's to raise awareness

also, with regards to your earlier post - implying that it is the fault of homosexual couples that children can no longer go out on the streets

bull

sex crimes have always been around, its just that more of them are reported now - this means that statistically speaking more happen now than 20 years ago, in reality, not the case

 

[Mike182]

I ma referring to what alternative means,: it is opposite to what ever and opposite to love is hate and good is evil. I’m also saying, homosexual relationships have no potential to carry on the family gene. The life of a homosexual is stopped by nature and if nature stopped it, and nature is direct result of god. Then it is definitely against god and obviously it should be against Christianity.

barren women, men with low sperm counts

these cant reproduce yet are not agianst god or christianity - yet cannot reproduce, your logic here is flawwed

 

[CMIYC]

barren women, men with low sperm counts

these cant reproduce yet are not agianst god or christianity - yet cannot reproduce, your logic here is flawwed

I think I did say "potential"

 

[Mike182]

I think I did say "potential"

your entire arguement depends on the word "alternate" meaning the same thing as "opposite" and im affraid to say that they dont mean the same thing at all

an alternate lifestyle is a 'different' lifestyle, not a completely opposite one

ok so barren women and men with low sperm counts have the potential to reproduce, so?

just because two men or two women cant reproduce together doesnt invalidate their love for eachother

 

[kreeden]

The life of a homosexual is stopped by nature and if nature stopped it, and nature is direct result of god. Then it is definitely against god and obviously it should be against Christianity.

But Nature has never stopped homosexuality . Never . Oh , Nature stops the life , but it stops the life of us all . And as we all carry on , so does homosexuality , in many species . not just human . So how can you say that " nature stopped it " ?

 

[kreeden]

I guess the answer is, I don't "Think" i'm a Christian... I just "Am" a Christian. The same way that I don't "Think" i'm gay, I just am.

You know ? I have often wondered why a person would want to be a part of something that tends to hate them , to treat them at best as outcast . But what you say there Rainbow , I can understand .

 

[michel]

rainbowchristianqld

I don’t mean to be a pessimist, but isn’t my view of general public? If you disagree, then, how come the majority of the world hasn’t accepted and given the same rights to homosexual as heterosexuals? When I said, will it open the floodgates for other perverse sexualities? What I meant was, dropping the tolerance level of one might encourage another. And don’t you think, I,” as a majority (heterosexual) should have the final say on what is accepted and what isn’t? Since when has the minority won a vote? You have chosen an alternative lifestyle it means just that.. Alternative to love is hate, alternative to good is evil. Is there any other way I could state my position on this matter.

You misunderstood; What I was 'objecting' to was your use of the word 'Chosen' in
" You have chosen an alternative lifestyle it means just that.".

I don't think that a gay 'chooses' to be looked down upon, ostracized by those who do not 'approve' of their position, rebuked by Churches..............:areyoucra

 

[Mike182]

You misunderstood; What I was 'objecting' to was your use of the word 'Chosen' in
" You have chosen an alternative lifestyle it means just that.".

I don't think that a gay 'chooses' to be looked down upon, ostracized by those who do not 'approve' of their position, rebuked by Churches..............:areyoucra

nope, dont like that - but id rather take all the crud from people and not hide away rather than live a lie, god would hate me to live like that

 

[CMIYC]

You misunderstood; What I was 'objecting' to was your use of the word 'Chosen' in
" You have chosen an alternative lifestyle it means just that.".

I don't think that a gay 'chooses' to be looked down upon, ostracized by those who do not 'approve' of their position, rebuked by Churches..............:areyoucra

Actually Michel, there certainly is gays that don’t choose to be anything but what they are. On percentages, there are also gays that go by sexual preference alone. There are also males and females that indulge in same sex acts, on very occasional bases. I think my view generalizes variety of promiscuous lifestyles and one rule or law should apply for all. Certainly this is very brief and if you like, we can dig up medical evidence that support my view by independent psychologists. What I mean by that is, psychology done by non gays.