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Ban the Bible and the Qur'an?

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Bear with me for a moment. This isn't as crazy or evil as it may at first sound. ;)

The Bible and the Qur'an represent the holy books of the world two largest religions, as well as various denominations and their predecessor Judaism from the old testament.

Whilst the concept of banning these two books flies in the face of our conceptions of personal liberty, there is a social evolutionary factor in this. The bible and the quran are both texts far removed from our own time and literal readings of them as truth are a hindrance on scientific advances as well a source of moral philosophies that struggle with questions in our technological age.

It would be hoped that in the era of atomic bombs, space exploration and industrialisation we would have developed religions or belief systems that correspond to the needs of the times. Whilst it is true that some varients of Islam and Christianity have re-invented themselves, it is only to remove the essence of the religious orthodoxy as mans submission to natural forces personified as a deity. It is more than possible to argue that such interpretations have defeated the religion itself as there are limits to how far you can interpret christianity or islam until you cease to be either a christian or a muslim. So whats the purpose of these religions if they are both scientifically and morally out-dated?

The flip side of this, is that as man comes to have greater mastery of the forces of nature and more power from our science and technology, being guided by a "bronze age" morality may infact be dangerous. Literal readings of these texts as a moral guide would produce hideously immoral societies by the standards we have today. the alternative is an extreme selectivity of these religions traditions and scripture which means that we are all but paying lip service to them. So why do we maintain the pretense of Christianity or Islam when we have made ourselves as individuals the supreme authority in deciding what parts of the religion we follow? This individualism is contaty to religious authority if it were cliamed to be derived from god or the church so it is not as if such a wide scope of interpretation is the pursuit of deeper "truth" when we have decided to ignore most of the religion.

So instead Christianity and Islam continue this strange pseudo-existence- on the one hand becoming empty liberal secular versions of themselves which do not necessarily offer spiritual truth or fulfilment in a way they were originally intended, or they are treated as truth and we condemn the results as contary to our humanity because they are such a miss match with advanced technological capabilities that could solve many problems. How long can this go on?

Should we draw a line under these religions by banning the bible and the quran and instead work to find belief systems for the majority of mankind that serve as better vechicles of the scientific and moral knowledge accumulated since the 1st and 6th century when they were established? Or should we allow these religions to continue and on what grounds?
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What about the Book of Mormon? Srimad Bhagavatam? The Gita? Baha'i Scriptures? Hadith? The Avesta? Nah man.

I'm sure we could get around to it sooner or later. ;)

Banning the Bible might be pretty good, people are attracted to stuff that is rebellious and edgy, Christians can be the new hipsters again. :D

While the point above was slightly facetious, I don't think suppression ever works e.g. the rapid growth of the Christian church in China, or the eager return to the Church in Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union

That is a fair point but it's hard to see how either Christianity or Islam would be supplanted by peaceful evolutionary means. Neither of them achieved their status as the dominant religions by peaceful conversion alone or even primarily. They spent centuries in forcibly conquering and converting whole territories to their way of thinking. So we are sort of stuck with the legacy of that whatever the value or truth of the religions.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Why not ban Das Kapital, Manifesto of the Communist party and Mein Kampf while you're at it?
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Bear with me for a moment. This isn't as crazy or evil as it may at first sound. ;)

The Bible and the Qur'an represent the holy books of the world two largest religions, as well as various denominations and their predecessor Judaism from the old testament.

Whilst the concept of banning these two books flies in the face of our conceptions of personal liberty, there is a social evolutionary factor in this. The bible and the quran are both texts far removed from our own time and literal readings of them as truth are a hindrance on scientific advances as well a source of moral philosophies that struggle with questions in our technological age.

It would be hoped that in the era of atomic bombs, space exploration and industrialisation we would have developed religions or belief systems that correspond to the needs of the times. Whilst it is true that some varients of Islam and Christianity have re-invented themselves, it is only to remove the essence of the religious orthodoxy as mans submission to natural forces personified as a deity. It is more than possible to argue that such interpretations have defeated the religion itself as there are limits to how far you can interpret christianity or islam until you cease to be either a christian or a muslim. So whats the purpose of these religions if they are both scientifically and morally out-dated?

The flip side of this, is that as man comes to have greater mastery of the forces of nature and more power from our science and technology, being guided by a "bronze age" morality may infact be dangerous. Literal readings of these texts as a moral guide would produce hideously immoral societies by the standards we have today. the alternative is an extreme selectivity of these religions traditions and scripture which means that we are all but paying lip service to them. So why do we maintain the pretense of Christianity or Islam when we have made ourselves as individuals the supreme authority in deciding what parts of the religion we follow? This individualism is contaty to religious authority if it were cliamed to be derived from god or the church so it is not as if such a wide scope of interpretation is the pursuit of deeper "truth" when we have decided to ignore most of the religion.

So instead Christianity and Islam continue this strange pseudo-existence- on the one hand becoming empty liberal secular versions of themselves which do not necessarily offer spiritual truth or fulfilment in a way they were originally intended, or they are treated as truth and we condemn the results as contary to our humanity because they are such a miss match with advanced technological capabilities that could solve many problems. How long can this go on?

Should we draw a line under these religions by banning the bible and the quran and instead work to find belief systems for the majority of mankind that serve as better vechicles of the scientific and moral knowledge accumulated since the 1st and 6th century when they were established? Or should we allow these religions to continue and on what grounds?

No, ban is not the solution. It is actually counter productive, Banning has the unpleasant effect to make people think that what is banned is somehow dangerous to the people who banned them. And people who ban too much, do not last long. Especially when they ban books.

The true secular society is achieved only when there is freedom to read whatever you want, without being threatened by this freedom.

In this respect, I am also against the banning of nazi books, like Mein Kampf, which is in place in today's Germany.

Ciao

- viole
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Bear with me for a moment. This isn't as crazy or evil as it may at first sound. ;)

The Bible and the Qur'an represent the holy books of the world two largest religions, as well as various denominations and their predecessor Judaism from the old testament.

Whilst the concept of banning these two books flies in the face of our conceptions of personal liberty, there is a social evolutionary factor in this. The bible and the quran are both texts far removed from our own time and literal readings of them as truth are a hindrance on scientific advances as well a source of moral philosophies that struggle with questions in our technological age.

It would be hoped that in the era of atomic bombs, space exploration and industrialisation we would have developed religions or belief systems that correspond to the needs of the times. Whilst it is true that some varients of Islam and Christianity have re-invented themselves, it is only to remove the essence of the religious orthodoxy as mans submission to natural forces personified as a deity. It is more than possible to argue that such interpretations have defeated the religion itself as there are limits to how far you can interpret christianity or islam until you cease to be either a christian or a muslim. So whats the purpose of these religions if they are both scientifically and morally out-dated?

The flip side of this, is that as man comes to have greater mastery of the forces of nature and more power from our science and technology, being guided by a "bronze age" morality may infact be dangerous. Literal readings of these texts as a moral guide would produce hideously immoral societies by the standards we have today. the alternative is an extreme selectivity of these religions traditions and scripture which means that we are all but paying lip service to them. So why do we maintain the pretense of Christianity or Islam when we have made ourselves as individuals the supreme authority in deciding what parts of the religion we follow? This individualism is contaty to religious authority if it were cliamed to be derived from god or the church so it is not as if such a wide scope of interpretation is the pursuit of deeper "truth" when we have decided to ignore most of the religion.

So instead Christianity and Islam continue this strange pseudo-existence- on the one hand becoming empty liberal secular versions of themselves which do not necessarily offer spiritual truth or fulfilment in a way they were originally intended, or they are treated as truth and we condemn the results as contary to our humanity because they are such a miss match with advanced technological capabilities that could solve many problems. How long can this go on?

Should we draw a line under these religions by banning the bible and the quran and instead work to find belief systems for the majority of mankind that serve as better vechicles of the scientific and moral knowledge accumulated since the 1st and 6th century when they were established? Or should we allow these religions to continue and on what grounds?
If they ban Quran and Bible and others religions books in "West", what we will discuss here ?

You will be the reason that this forum RF be closed soon :D
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
What you could do is require everyone to learn the history of Egypt and how its culture is reflected in later cultures and religions. If the USSR could have done that it would have made for a much more productive union. Instead during its times of suppression, Bibles became exciting and so began to appeal to thrill seekers. The bans were unsuccessful, too; as missionaries kept smuggling Bibles and materials in. Instead of suppressing religion they merely succeeded in inviting new variations which was the exact opposite of the union of belief that they were aiming for.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
...................
Should we draw a line under these religions by banning the bible and the quran and instead work to find belief systems for the majority of mankind that serve as better vechicles of the scientific and moral knowledge accumulated since the 1st and 6th century when they were established? Or should we allow these religions to continue and on what grounds?
Peace be on you....What good results were produced in religion-less Soviet era?

Please just think to control extremism on the name of religion, helped by local clergies-cum-politicians in underdeveloped places and weapons dealers of advanced places.

Rest will be fine.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What you could do is require everyone to learn the history of Egypt and how its culture is reflected in later cultures and religions. If the USSR could have done that it would have made for a much more productive union. Instead during its times of suppression, Bibles became exciting and so began to appeal to thrill seekers. The bans were unsuccessful, too; as missionaries kept smuggling Bibles and materials in. Instead of suppressing religion they merely succeeded in inviting new variations which was the exact opposite of the union of belief that they were aiming for.

You make an interesting point, as I guess its really about whether the bible or the quran are the source of the more "problematic" elements in religious beliefs.

Gosh, man, what would the point of a ban be?

Criticize the heck out of them, but don't even consider banning them.

Banning the bible or the Quran may stop the spread of (debatably) "bad" ideas or ideas that have since become outdated. Given the amount of time individual quotations of the two books are taken as representative of the entire religions and used to condemn them it would arguably be logical to consider a form of censorship if we considered these texts as their source.

Peace be on you....What good results were produced in religion-less Soviet era?

Please just think to control extremism on the name of religion, helped by local clergies-cum-politicians in underdeveloped places and weapons dealers of advanced places.

Rest will be fine.

Very little overall was good in the religionless Soviet Union. I won't deny it was quite a cesspool.

The issue in the OP was whether Christianity and Islam were really appropriate for our times as a whole and whether their continuation was justifable on rational grounds aside from freedom of religion. So the OP isn't just about objecting to extremism but what freedom of religion is actually for in secular societies when considered on a social scale rather than in terms of individual right to belief.
 

interminable

منتظر
QURAN is the eternal miracle of prophet muhammad pbuh so why do u say it's out dated?

Every moment this book challenges human being to bring like me a surah containing just 3 verses
And after 1400 years and this so called technology that u are proud of , Noone could bring that!!!!!
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Banning the bible or the Quran may stop the spread of (debatably) "bad" ideas or ideas that have since become outdated. Given the amount of time individual quotations of the two books are taken as representative of the entire religions and used to condemn them it would arguably be logical to consider a form of censorship if we considered these texts as their source.

Sorry, I am neither seeing how it could work nor why it would be defensible.

If anything, banning a book makes it seem more worth pursuing even if it is worthless and untruthful.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
QURAN is the eternal miracle of prophet muhammad pbuh so why do u say it's out dated?

Every moment this book challenges human being to bring like me a surah containing just 3 verses
And after 1400 years and this so called technology that u are proud of , Noone could bring that!!!!!
I would have to ask who judged so, if I did not know that it is according to the Qur'an itself.
 
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