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Featured Bahaullah: Kitab-i-Iqan: “Book of Certitude”

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, May 9, 2019.

  1. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Bahaullah: Kitab-i-Iqan: “Book of Certitude”

    While I read Kitab-i-Iqan in English I want to know the Farsi/Persian edition that has been indicated in the text in English. For instance [Page-44] as shown in the English translation shown as Exhibit-A in the next post #2.

    (Exhibit-B is the Farsi/Persian text calligraphed by `Abdu'l-Baha.
    Exhibit-C is the Farsi/ Persian text calligraphed by Mishkin Qalam.)

    Regards
     
    #1 paarsurrey, May 9, 2019
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Bahaullah: Kitab-i-Iqan: “Book of Certitude”

    Exhibit-A

    This is the meaning of the sacred verse: “But nay! I swear by the Lord of the Easts and the Wests,” 4 inasmuch as the “Suns” referred to have each their own particular rising and setting place. And as the commentators of the Qur’án have failed to grasp the symbolic meaning of these “Suns,” they therefore were at pains to interpret the above-quoted verse. Some of them maintained that owing to the fact that the sun each day rises from a different [Page 44] point, the terms “easts” and “wests” have been mentioned in the plural. Others have written that by this verse the four seasons of the year are intended, inasmuch as the dawning and setting points of the sun vary with the change of the seasons. Such is the depth of their understanding! None the less, they persist in imputing error and folly to those Gems of knowledge, those irreproachable and purest Symbols of wisdom.

    Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 41-80

    Exhibit-B

    Kitab-i Iqan. Bombay: n.p., circa 1882. Reprinted East Lansing, MI: H-Bahai, 1998.
    Note: This is a digital reproduction of the first printed Baha'i book in Persian text. It is probably calligraphed by `Abdu'l-Baha.

    p. 44

    Exhibit-C

    Farsi: handwritten Kitab-i Iqan. Bombay: n.p., 1893. Reprinted East Lansing, MI: H-Bahai, 1998.

    Note: Persian text calligraphed by Mishkin Qalam.

    p. 44
     
    #2 paarsurrey, May 9, 2019
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  3. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Page 44 of English translation does not correspond to page 44 of Farsi, and there is no reason it should. So, for example look at page 44 of the Arabic Quran, and page 44 of any English Translation. They are different verses.
    I am not sure exactly what you are asking here! Can you please clarify more?
     
  4. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    It is a simple question. Page-44 mentioned in between the text of English Iqan, what does it indicate, please?

    Regards
     
  5. Komori

    Komori Member

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    It indicates page 44 of the pocket-sized edition of the Kitāb-i Īqān published in 1989 by the US Bahá'í Publishing Trust. The page numbers aren't talking about the published edition of the Persian text. The Persian text of the paragraph can be found on page 40 of this PDF: http://aeenebahai.org/sites/default/files/Kitab-i-Iqan.pdf

    صِراطِ الاَمرِ فيِ شاطئِ العرفانِ بِاسمِ اللّه موقُوفاً. اين است معنی آيهمبارکه که می فرمايد: "فَلا اُقسِمُ بِرَبِّ المَشارِقِ و المَغَارِب." زيرا که از برای هر شمسی از اين شموس مذکوره محلّ اشراق و غروب است. و چون علمای تفسير بر حقيقت اين شمس های مذکوره اطّلاع نيافتند لهذا در تفسير اين آيه مبارکه معطّل شدند. و بعضی ذکر نمودند که چون آفتاب در هر روز از نقطه ای طلوع می نمايد غير از نقطه يوم قبل لهذا به لفظ جمع ذکر فرموده. و بعضی ديگر نوشته‏اند که مقصود فصول اربعه است که در هر فصلی چون شمس از محلّی طالع می شود و به محلّی غروب می نمايد لهذا مشارق و مغارب ذکر شده. اين است مراتب علم عباد. و با وجود اين به جواهر علم و لطائف حکمت چه جهل ها و عيوب ها که نسبت
     
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  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Thanks for your input.

    Why do the Bahaullah's followers give so much importance to the "pocket-sized edition of the Kitāb-i Īqān published in 1989 by the US Bahá'í Publishing Trust." to provide its page-number in between the text of the one I gave reference* of?
    Was this pocket-sized edition in English or in Farsi/Persian?

    Regards
    _____________
    *Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 41-80
     
  7. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    I had never heard that Bahais give importance to the one you are talking about. Never heard of this. Where did you get this idea from?! Maybe you want to share, so, I can give you my opinion.
     
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  8. Komori

    Komori Member

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    It is in English. I don't think they give much importance to it; it's just the edition they happened to use to create the online version. The copy I bought when I was a Baha'i is the 2003 pocket-sized edition, which has different page numbering. The Persian online edition is taken from the printed Persian edition published by the Baha'is in Germany in 1998 with an ISBN of 3-87037-964-2.
     
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  9. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I thought it was perhaps reference to some original Farsi Iqan. Now I am clear about it with your clarification.
    I did observe from the English Iqan translated by Shoghi Effendi the tricks he did with the verses of Quran. The Quranic verses are written in Arabic by Bahaullah in the Farsi Iqan and the references (Chapter/verse) provided in the present edition in foot-notes English translation of Iqan.
    Similarly there are Hadith/Narrations (Shia-Hadith, the Sunni-Hadith Bahaullah did not quote or did not know of) mentioned by Bahaullah but their exact reference has not been mentioned in the foot-notes of the English translation.
    I wanted to Check/verify these Hadith from a comparison of the English-Iqan and the Farsi/Iqan.

    Regards
     
  10. Sanzbir

    Sanzbir Well-Known Member

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    It's just a means to easily reference the text when quoted from the English, one can then go look up a specific verse on a specific page. Baha'i texts, except for The Hidden Words, don't have verse numbers like the Bible or Quran do, so page numbers are usually referenced when citing a specific book.

    The page number is in the virtual copy that you copied here so that people using the virtual copy can look up cited pages as easily as someone using a physical book.

    There's no importance whatsoever on the page numbers, it's merely a means of convenience for the sake of reference.

    It would probably be easier to number the verses in a manner similar to the Quran or Bible, but I'm not in charge of publishing these books, so my opinion on that topic doesn't matter much.
     
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  11. Komori

    Komori Member

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    Yes, Shoghi Effendi is well-known among critics of the Baha'i Faith for his translation trickery. For example, in paragraph 280 he translates the phrase masdar-i amr (مصدر امر), which means 'Source of Command' and refers to Subh-i Azal, as 'Mystic Source' to obscure the fact that, when the Kitāb-i Īqān was written, Bahā'u'llāh was still at least outwardly loyal to Subh-i Azal. This has been noted by multiple critical researchers, namely Browne, MacEoin, and Miller. Even the 1904 translation of the Īqān (translated by Ali-Kuli Khan, whose translation was actually approved by Abdu'l-Bahāʾ) translates masdar-i amr as 'Source of Command.'
    And you see the same degree of trickery coming from Bahā'u'llāh with his citation of the Qur'an and the ahadith. It is clear what he is trying to do (namely, to equate his own writings with the Qur'an and to blur the line between them — the Bāb did the same thing), but it makes verifying his quotations rather difficult, something which the editors of the Īqān did not seek to remedy (apparently they could not even find the ahadith he quoted). For example, in paragraph 274 he quotes a supposed hadith and only says, "Thus it is related in the “Biháru’l-Anvar,” ignoring the fact that Bihar al-Anwar is a 110-volume book series. I would be happy to help you in tracking down any of these ahadith if you need it.
     
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  12. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    " For example, in paragraph 274 he quotes a supposed hadith and only says, "Thus it is related in the “Biháru’l-Anvar,” ignoring the fact that Bihar al-Anwar is a 110-volume book series."

    My understanding is that Shoghi Effendi made English speaking and the people in the West as main target market for his Bahaism (not even named by Bahaullah himself, don't know who named it) as they would be unaware of the truth of Quran. Shoghi Effendi did not quote the Quranic verses in Arabic in Iqan and choose for its translation done by a Christian cleric, he could have given translations of some renowned Muslim but his purpose seems to mislead the people away for conversion.

    In fact I will like to track down all Ahadith mentioned in Iqan, these are perhaps not as much as the Quranic verses quoted in Iqan though.

    Thanks and regards
     
    #12 paarsurrey, May 9, 2019
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  13. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I personally would thank Allah for that.

    Muhammad now has many Loyal Loving Baha'i from the west to help clear up the missunderstandings in regards to Muhammad.

    Regards Tony
     
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  14. Komori

    Komori Member

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    You are absolutely correct. By the time of Abdu'l-Bahāʾ, the main focus was on marketing towards Westerners. Shoghi Effendi used Rodwell's translation of the Qur'an as his standard (as shown here: Kitáb-i-Íqán and the Qur'an), and thus this translation (as well as Arberyy's, both of which were done by orientalists) still remains popular among Bahāʾīs today, despite the numerous problems with both of them, such as the laughable rendering of ʿaṣr in Sūrat al-ʿaṣr as 'afternoon.'
    Bahāʾīs are in fact doing the opposite, since so many of them suffer from latent Islamophobia, and especially Shīʿah-pbobia, and this phenomenon began with Bahā'u'llāh himself:
     
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  15. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Now I understand why you know so much about the Baha'i Faith. As always, thanks for your input.
     
  16. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I definitely do not see any Baha'i posting here having and phobia, but I do see the Love for the Oneness of God and for all the human race. Thus the phobia's seem to be attributed from another source.

    If one does see the call for justice against serious abuses of human rights, violations of the law and oaths on Quran and violations against ones countries own laws, as a phobia, then the United Nations as a whole are thus charged for bringing due attention to these actions.

    Regards Tony
     
  17. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    What Baha'u'llah states concerning the Imams is as follows,
    '...in the sacred verse: "Obey God and obey the Apostle, and those among you invested with authority." By "those invested with authority" is meant primarily and more especially the Imams -- the blessings of God rest upon them! They, verily, are the manifestations of the power of God, and the sources of His authority, and the repositories of His knowledge, and the daysprings of His commandments."
    (Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 90)
     
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  18. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "http://aeenebahai.org/sites/default/files/Kitab-i-Iqan.pdf"

    Thanks for providing me the above link.I have downloaded it. It has printed page-numbers and it will be useful for reading Farsi Iqan.

    Regards
     
  19. Komori

    Komori Member

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    Sunnis also honour and praise our imams, so if that statement makes Baha'u'llah a Shi'ite, then it also makes Dawah Man a Shi'ite.
     
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  20. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Sunnis don’t interpret the verse in question as referring to the authority of the Imams, and I never said Baha’u’llah was Shiah, He was born into Shia, but taught people to become “people of Baha”.
     
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