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Featured Bahaullah has revealed!

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    As explained above.

    Baha'u'llah wrote this book as a Babi to answer a question by the Uncle of the Bab as to how His Nephew could be a Messenger from God.

    As Baha'u'llah had not yet made a declaration that He was the One Promised by the Bab, that would have gone beyond the question asked, and would have been a public declartaion.

    That would be like Christ telling plainly that he was Christ before the appointed time, before the Baptisim with John.

    God doeth as He willeth. It is a rare few that can see a Messenger before they declare thier Mission, but there are many that knew who Baha'u'llah was prior to His declaration. All remained silent until the appointed time.

    You will not find Baha'u'llah by looking for His declaration in the Kitab-i-iqan, he had not made it yet. The appointed time had nit arrived.

    The Quran confirms this;

    "...They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you." They ask thee as if thou Wert eager in search thereof: Say: "The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not."

    Regards Tony
     
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  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "In the Book of Certitude Baha’u’llah references the Quran 10:35 referring to Himself ".Unquote

    I quote the Quran verses below:

    [10:35]
    Say, ‘Is there any of your associate- gods who originates creation and then reproduces it?’ Say, ‘It is Allah alone Who originates creation and then reproduces it. Whither then are you turned away?’
    [10:36]
    Say, ‘Is there any of your associate- gods who leads to the truth?’ Say, ‘It is Allah Who leads to the truth. Is then He Who leads to the truth more worthy to be followed or he who finds not the way himself unless he be guided? What, then, is the matter with you? How judge ye?’
    The Holy Quran - Chapter: 10: Yunus
    1. Which one of the above two verses one is referring to? How the same has any connection with Bahaullah, please?
    2. Please give the page # of the original Iqan in Farsi/Persian language where the clear and unequivocal claim of "revelation" from G-d about Iqan is given as also the reasonable argument given by Bahaullah,please.
    Regards
     
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  3. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Please quote from Iqan where Bahaullah mentioned the source.

    Regards
     
  4. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    That is your own understanding or the understanding of the Bahaism people not of Bahaullah,please.
    I want to know Bahaullah's understanding, if you can quote from Iqan in this connection for me, please.

    Regards
     
  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "The book was written to prove the Bab gave a Message from God."

    Did Bahaullah mention in Iqan that the purpose of his writing Iqan was to prove the Bab gave a Message from God,please?

    Regards
     
  6. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Have you ever thought about taking an English course? You seem unable to listen to or understand what any of the Baha'is here are saying.
     
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  7. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing." Unquote

    I don't find it in Iqan, please give passage/page number to locate it.
    Regards
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "Sura 10:25
    And God summons to the Abode of Peace, and He guides whomsoever He will to a straight path;
    المسالك::The city of Baghdad; its description by Ibn Jubair
    "Unquote

    You mean:
    1>[10:25]
    The likeness of the present life is only as water which We send down from the clouds, then there mingles with it the produce of the earth, of which men and cattle eat till, when the earth receives its ornature and looks beautiful and its owners think that they have power over it, there comes to it Our command by night or by day and We render it a field that is mown down, as if nothing had existed there the day before. Thus do We expound the Signs for a people who reflect.
    [10:26]
    And Allah calls to the abode of peace, and guides whom He pleases to the straight path.
    The Holy Quran - Chapter: 10: Yunus

    2>Baghdad (/ˈbæɡdæd, bəɡˈdæd/; Arabic: بغداد‎ [baɣˈdaːd] ( listen)) is the capital of Iraq. The population of Baghdad, as of 2016, is approximately 8,765,000,[citation needed][note 1] making it the largest city in Iraq, the second largest city in the Arab world (after Cairo, Egypt), and the second largest city in Western Asia (after Tehran, Iran).

    Located along the Tigris River, the city was founded in the 8th century and became the capital of the Abbasid Caliphate. Within a short time of its inception, Baghdad evolved into a significant cultural, commercial, and intellectual center for the Islamic world. This, in addition to housing several key academic institutions (e.g., House of Wisdom), as well as hosting multiethnic and multireligious environment, garnered the city a worldwide reputation as the "Centre of Learning".

    Etymology
    When the Abbasid caliph, al-Mansur, founded a completely new city for his capital, he chose the name Madinat al-Salaam or City of Peace. This was the official name on coins, weights, and other official usage, although the common people continued to use the old name.[19][20][unreliable source?] By the 11th century, "Baghdad" became almost the exclusive name for the world-renowned metropolis.
    Baghdad - Wikipedia

    The city (Baghdad) did not exist in the time of Muhammad. Its name, as I understand, was Baghdad in the time of Bahaullah also.

    Isn't one reading too much what is not meant in the text with certainty, please?

    Regards
     
    #28 paarsurrey, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  9. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    The answer has been given, this link has many details;

    Kitáb-i-Íqán - Wikipedia

    This link is the book and has a short explanation;

    The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library

    "A treatise revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in Baghdad in 1861/62 in response to questions posed by one of the maternal uncles of the Báb, translated by Shoghi Effendi and first published in English in 1931.

    Regards Tony
     
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  10. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    That is the way Prophecy works, God is all knowing.

    Baha'u'llah means 'Glory of God', or Glory of the Lord'.

    Now read the Bible about the last days and see how often that it is said that in the last days Baha'u'llah would come and guide us to all truth. We also know that in a lot of passages, the 'Father' is also the 'Glory of God'.

    Regards Tony
     
  11. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    According to history, the Book of Iqan was written in response to questions of the uncle of the Bab, and in that Book we can see, some of the statements that shows Bahaullah at least in part is answering questions,

    However, if we read it carefully, and think about the following quote in Iqan, we realize, Bahaullah is revealing a Book to fulfill the Promise of God:

    "In fact, all the Scriptures and the mysteries thereof are condensed into this
    brief account. So much so, that were a person to ponder it a while in his heart, he would discover from all that hath been said the mysteries of the Words of God, and would apprehend the meaning of whatever hath been manifested by that ideal King. As the people differ in their understanding and station, We will accordingly make mention of a few traditions, that these may impart constancy to the wavering soul, and tranquillity to the troubled mind. Thereby, will the testimony of God unto the people, both high and low, be complete and perfect."

    If we read this paragraph carefully and think about it, we see that Bahaullah is saying this Book has all the explanation of all mysteries of God from all scriptures of the past in it. Moreover, Bahaullah says, by writing this Book, The Testamony of God to all mankind is completed. Now, we must think, if Bahaullah only as an ordinary man, wrote the Book, how could He say, the Testamony of God is completed by this Book? The answer for me is, Bahaullah is claiming to have a mission from God, and by revealing this Book He is completing the Testamony of God unto all men. Now, we may think,why would this Book complete the Testamony of God? The answer for me is, God had promised in the Bible, as well as the Quran, that He shall reveal the interpretations of His Book ( see Quran 7:50-55), and open the seal of His Books, to reveal its mysteries (see Bible, chapter of Daniel and Revelations).
     
    #31 InvestigateTruth, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  12. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    The city of Baghdad was not called 'Abode of Peace' at the time of Muhammad. But Allah was referring to that city when He said ' the Abode of peace'. This is because according to a Hadith from Imam Sadigh, the Abode of Peace, is geographically the same place, that is now called Baghdad. Moreover, there are other traditions that , the Mahdi appears in Baghdad to fulfill the prophecy of God, as recorded in the Quran 'God comes down overshadowed with clouds'.
    Is it possible, Al-Mansour, had named the city 'Abode of peace', after inspiration from Quran and according to the will of God? When God says 'be', then 'it is'. So, God called that area 'Abode of Peace' and thus this name was given to that city through Al-Mansour.
     
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  13. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I asked a simple question and our friend @InvestigateTruth has given a simple answer confirming "Bahaullah did NOT say in clear terms that, the Book of Iqan is a revelation from God."

    I don't know as to why other friend could not confirm it.
    They may please note it, and if they like it there is no harm in confirming it. Right, please?
    No compulsion though.

    Regards
     
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  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Quran is not word of Muhammad, it is not authored by Muhammad. It is Word of God.
    This is expressly, clearly, explicitly, unambiguously and unequivocally mentioned several times in Quran.
    But that is not the topic of the thread, please.

    Regards
     
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  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I see the question was answered many times. A yes and no answer is only required by Lawyers, wholly trying to direct the conversation in one direction.

    It can also be said, that it was not said, that it was not a Revelation from God. In fact it is seen that there was metephor contained within that suggests it is from God .

    So that gets us back to needing a more detailed explanation and that Metephor can be explored.

    Regards Tony
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    It is from a Tablet, NÁṢIRI’D-DÍN SHÁH from the book Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh.
    Below is the whole paragraph, but the Tablet continues on after that:

    “O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. This is but a leaf which the winds of the will of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Praised, have stirred. Can it be still when the tempestuous winds are blowing? Nay, by Him Who is the Lord of all Names and Attributes! They move it as they list. The evanescent is as nothing before Him Who is the Ever-Abiding. His all-compelling summons hath reached Me, and caused Me to speak His praise amidst all people. I was indeed as one dead when His behest was uttered. The hand of the will of thy Lord, the Compassionate, the Merciful, transformed Me. Can any one speak forth of his own accord that for which all men, both high and low, will protest against him? Nay, by Him Who taught the Pen the eternal mysteries, save him whom the grace of the Almighty, the All-Powerful, hath strengthened. The Pen of the Most High addressethMe saying: Fear not. Relate unto His Majesty the Sháh that which befell thee. His heart, verily, is between the fingers of thy Lord, the God of Mercy, that haply the sun of justice and bounty may shine forth above the horizon of his heart. Thus hath the decree been irrevocably fixed by Him Who is the All-Wise.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 57-58
     
  17. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    It might mean a lot to you, but to others it could easily be a title given to a person to make him the center of Christian prophecies. Just calling Jesus "the Christ" doesn't make him the Jewish Messiah. So how does calling Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí "The Glory of God" fulfill anything? Besides, many of the prophecies speak of "The Lamb of God" or "The Lamb that was slain". Baha'is seem to like to say this is The Bab, but was he ever referred to by these names?
     
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  18. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I see that It is what it all means to you, that is important.

    I can only post what I have found.

    I could ask if you have seen what is on Mt Carmel Lately and did the Glory of God play any part in that?

    Regards Tony
     
  19. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Baha’u’llah like Muhammad before Him teaches there is only one God and none other but Him.

    The claim of Baha’u’llah is alluded to in the passages I gave you and the same in Persian if you understand Farsi. Please refer to these passages.
     
  20. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    That is from a Tablet to the King. Here Baha’u’llah refers to the time when He was chosen to be a Manifestation in 1852 in Tehran before the Iqan was written.
     
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