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Featured (Bahaullah): Did Joseph and Mary live in Nazareth when Jesus was born?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    It is a correct understanding of the “Nazara or Nazareth - Correct birthplace of Jesus” article. I misunderstood you to be drawing your conclusion from the other article which didn’t use language as certain.

    That being said according to the article Jesus was born in the city Nazara, not in the wilderness under a date palm tree, so your not really proving the Quran’s view point here.
     
  2. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    After Alexander Helios III, the father of Mary, was murdered by Herod the Great, the seven year old Mary [who is believed to be the grand-daughter of Mark Antony and Cleopatra] was removed from her mother and taken north into the land of Galilee to the Zealot commune named 'Nazareth', where she was raised under the protection of the Jewish zealots whose aim it was, to throw off the yoke of Roman rule and establish a descendant of King David, back on the throne of Israel.

    Hanna/Anna, the mother of Mary, and the daughter of the high priest Yehoshua/Jesus III, and his wife Phanuel of the tribe of Asher, remained in Jerusalem and never left the temple day and night, where she worshiped God.

    And when Mary had brought her child from Bethlehem of Judea, where it had been born some 41 days earlier, to the temple in Jerusalem to perform the ceremony of purification, it was her mother Hanna, who after seeing her grand-child Jesus at the temple, gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were waiting for God to set Jerusalem free.

    After performing the ceremony of Purification, Joseph, Mary and her Child returned to their home in Nazareth.
     
    #22 The Anointed, Jun 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  3. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Luke wasn't around... He lived in Antioch, Syria and his geography is terrible.

    [​IMG]

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  4. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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  5. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Jesus of Nazareth, a phrase occurring seventeen times in the New Testament, has identified a small, unwalled town in southern Galilee with Jesus for all time.

    Located some fifteen miles west of the Sea of Galilee and twenty miles east of the Mediterranean Sea, Nazareth had a population between two hundred and four hundred people at the beginning of the first century.
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Josephus called Sepphoris “the ornament of all Galilee.” Herod Antipas chose this site in 4 BC. as the capital of his government. He most likely built the theater as well. Josephus said Sepphoris was the largest city in Galilee and an exceptionally strong fortress at the time of the First Revolt in 66 AD.

    The people of Sepphoris supported Vespasian in the Jewish Revolt, surrendering to the Romans and thus preventing the destruction of the city (WarIII.2.4).

    They even minted coins in honor of Vespasian as the “peace maker.”

    Sepphoris had 10,000-12,000 inhabitants in the early Roman period.. That was a large city for the times. Most towns had fewer than 500 people.
     
  7. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "two hundred and four hundred people"
    So Nasira/Nazira was not even a town, it was a village. Right, please?
    Regards
     
  8. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Yep.. Palestine never had a big population..... 600-700,000 total at the most. The Bible is just full of gross exaggerations... plus the myths.
     
  9. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    According to Josephus the historian, Sepphoris, which was only about 4 miles from Bethlehem of Galilee, and a few kilometres from Nazareth, had a population of around thirty thousand and he called it, "The Ornament of Galilee."

    Thirty thousand old girl, 3 times more that your erroneous estimate.

    Around the time of Herod’s death in the spring of 4BC, just after he had ordered the slaughter of the innocents around the district of Bethlehem of Galilee, who were two years and below, according to the time that the wise men had seen the heavenly sign that had heralded the birth of Jesus in 6 B.C. there were riots among the peasants of the area in Galilee of which Sepphoris was the centre. Judas, the son of Hezekias attacked the arsenal of Herod in the city of Sepphoris in order to arm the peasants.

    The Romans under Quintillius Varus of Syria, attacked and burnt the city, putting down the uprising in which many families died and others were taken prisoner and transported to Rome, where they were sold as slaves. But Joseph, with his wife and her child had escaped the slaughter by fleeing into Egypt.

    After a failed suicide attempt, which I believe may have been an option given to him by Caesar Augustus, in the spring of 4 BC, Herod the Great died, then in the spring of 3 B.C., after the death of Herod his father, when Antipas returned from Rome where his father’s will had been ratified by Augustus, he chose and rebuilt the magnificent city of Sepphoris as his capital city for ruling over Galilee.

    BTW; Historians estimate that there were about 6-7 million Jews living in the Roman Empire (plus another 1 million from Persia.
     
    #29 The Anointed, Jun 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  10. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Most of Josephus's numbers are gross exaggerations.

    Population of Sepphoris in the Early Roman Period Previous estimates of the city’s population size are too large.29 Zeev Weiss, Ehud Netzer, and Eric Meyers have all suggested that Sepphoris had 10,000-12,000 inhabitants in the early Roman period and 14,000-22,000 in the middle and later Roman period.30 However, they admit that these figures are estimates.
    The Population Size of Sepphoris: Rethinking Urbanization ...
    www.academia.edu/33894484/The_Population_Size_of_Sepphoris_Rethinking_Urbanization_in_E
     
  11. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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  12. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Yea! Well I'll accept the estimate given by Joseph the historian who lived in those times, and that was about thirty thousand.
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    He was born in 37 AD and employed by Vespasian.. His other population figures have proven false.
     
  14. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    It was not until the late Hellenistic (Hasmonean) period (150–50 B.C.E.) that Jerusalem flourished again, just as it had at the time before the Babylonian destruction. Geva’s population estimate: 8,000.

    The next period—the Herodian (or Early Roman) period—extending from about 50 B.C.E. to the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E., includes the time when Jesus is associated with the city.

    Again, this period is very well documented archaeologically, but estimates of the city’s population at the time of the Roman destruction vary widely.

    One scholar estimated the number at nearly a quarter million, another at more than a 100,000. Several put the number around 75,000.

    A number of others estimated between 25,000 and 75,000. Geva, always the population minimalist, estimates the number at 20,000.

    In the Byzantine period (fourth–seventh centuries C.E.), Jerusalem was a Christian city.a Estimates of the city’s population are as high as 100,000 and then go down gradually to 70,000 to 60,000 to 50,000 to 25,000.

    Geva’s estimate: 15,000.

    continued

    https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/jerusalem/ancient-jerusalem/
     
  15. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Sorry old girl, but Josephus the Historian who lived in those times and had visited Sephorrus, has proven the population figures of your more recent time scholars, to have been incorrect.

    Admittedly he was referring to Sepporrus after it had been rebuilt by Herod Antipas.
     
    #35 The Anointed, Jun 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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