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Bahaullah’s claims and the Facts

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Unes, Apr 30, 2009.

  1. Unes

    Unes Active Member
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    Bahaullah’s claims and the Facts


    Making a claim is one thing, but backing it up is another matter!

    Bahaullah is the founder of the Baha’i Faith.
    At wikipedia.org site we find that Bahá'u'lláh, the devine founder of the Bahai Faith, has made the following claims:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27u%27ll%C3%A1h

    Bahaullah’s Claims:
    Bahá'u'lláh declared that he was the "Promised One" of all religions, fulfilling the messianic prophecies found in world religions.[1] He stated that his claims to being several messiahs converging one person were the symbolic, rather than literal, fulfilment of the messianic and eschatological prophecies found in the literature of the major religions.[1] Bahá'u'lláh's eschatological claims constitute six distinctive messianic identifications: from Judaism, the incarnation of the "Everlasting Father" from the Yuletide prophecy of Isaiah 9:6, the "Lord of Hosts"; from Christianity, the "Spirit of Truth" or Comforter predicted by Jesus in his farewell discourse of John 14-17 and the return of Christ "in the glory of the Father"; from Zoroastrianism, the return of Shah Bahram Varjavand, a Zoroastrian messiah predicted in various late Pahlavi texts; from Shi'a Islam the return of the Third Imam, Imam Husayn; from Sunni Islam, the return of Jesus, Isa; and from Bábism, He whom God shall make manifest.[1]
    While Bahá'u'lláh did not claim himself to be either the Hindu or Buddhist messiah, he did so in principle through his writings.[1] Later, `Abdu'l-Bahá stated that Bahá'u'lláh was the Kalki avatar, who in the classical Hindu Vaishnavas tradition is the tenth and final avatar (great incarnation) of Vishnu who will come to end The Age of Darkness and Destruction.[1] Bahá'ís also believe that Bahá'u'lláh is the fulfilment of the prophecy of appearance of the Maitreya Buddha, who is a future Buddha who will eventually appear on earth, achieve complete enlightenment, and teach the pure Dharma.[45] Bahá'ís believe that the prophecy that Maitreya will usher in a new society of tolerance and love has been fulfilled by Bahá'u'lláh's teachings on world peace.[45] Bahá'u'lláh is believed to be a descendant of a long line of kings in Persia through Yazdgerd III, the last monarch of the Sasanian Dynasty;[2] he also asserted to be a descendant of Abraham through his third wife Keturah.[46]

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Baha’i is a new faith which it claims it is the continuation of the Abrahamic faith. As I argued about the falsehood of Christianity and the falsehood of Holy Koran, then that makes the Baha’i faith also a fraudulent faith!

    <a href="http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/abrahamic-religions/39265-christianity-crisis.html"> Christianity in Crisis </a>

    http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/76909-holy-koran-facts.html

    ( The limitation of the 10,000 characters forced me to split my comments into two posts. In word software my entire document shows only 7600 characters, and that includes the spaces too, but here in this page it says 16,000 characters!)

    May God Bless Us All
    Unes
     
    #1 Unes, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited: May 1, 2009
  2. Unes

    Unes Active Member
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    Bahaullah’s claims and the Facts


    It is easy claiming something, but the test is; can he back it up?

    from Judaism, the incarnation of the "Everlasting Father"

    Doesn’t the "Everlasting Father" means that this divine Father does not die and he is living in Heaven forever? But, Bahaullah (1817-1892) died at age of 75, like any other human being!

    from Christianity, the "Spirit of Truth" or Comforter predicted by Jesus in his farewell discourse of John 14-17 and the return of Christ "in the glory of the Father"

    Some of the Christian theology evolves around the "Original Sin" and "Virgin Mary". But, Bahaullah's father had seven wives and at least fifteen children. Bahaullah himself had three wives and a dozen children. This looks Bahaullah, as the Returning Jesus, entirely had abolished the whole notion of immaculate inception birth in the Christianity! Apparently his mother in his new birth did not need to be virgin any more! Since Bahaullah had some sibling, I wonder if any of his divine genes was shared with his siblings, since they shared the same parents!? Besides, Jesus in his first coming could not be killed, he resurrected himself and he ascended to Heaven. But Bahaullah as the Returning Jesus unfortunately had lost this capability and he died and he got buried under six foot earth!

    Also, second coming of Jesus is supposed to evoke Rapture and Battle of Armageddon. Maybe the Rapture and Battle of Armageddon happened and we did not notice them! Bahaullah did not evoke anything remotely close to those prophecies. This is crystal clear that Bahaullah's claims as being the returned Jesus is fraudulent beyond any doubt and he really was an imposter.


    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


    "from Shi'a Islam the return of the Third Imam, Imam Husayn."

    In Shiite Islam, they do not expect the return of the third Imam; Imam Husayn(this also spells as Hussein, like in Barack Hussein Obama)! They expect the return of the twelve Imam; Imam Mehdi. Imam Mehdi is the "Promised One"! Since Bab, the initiator of the Bahai faith, claimed to be the returning Imam Mehdi then Bahaullah settled to be the returning Third Imam!
    Imam Mehdi, the twelve Imam, is supposed to reveal his identity at a designated time, and conquer the whole world, and glorify Islam.


    It is worth mentioning that Imam Mehdi, the twelve Imam, was born in 868 AD and according to Shiite Islam he was hidden by God at the age of five. He is still alive but his identity is concealed. He is waiting for the time that God has decreed for his return. So, Imam Mehdi has been living over 1100 years, and upon his return he will be victorious over the evildoers. But, Bab (1819 -1850), the initiator of the Bahai Faith, claimed that he was Imam Mehdi, and he got killed by the verdict from the Shiite Clergies for heresy. In 1819 Bab was born to his mom, if Bab was the expected Imam Mehdi, why did he need to be born again!? Also, why the Returning Imam Mehdi (Bab) got killed without fulfilling his mission!?

    From the outcome of Bab's life, we can conclude that either Bab was an imposter! Or, the Shiite Faith has a false prophecy! In either case that voids Bab’s claim! Because, when you claim that you are the "Promised One" and you have showed up to complete your mission, then you are obligated to deliver the promised prophecy. Any failure, for any reason, it negates the assumed claim.


    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


    "While Bahá'u'lláh did not claim himself to be either the Hindu or Buddhist messiah, he did so in principle through his writings."

    Budda taught people how to live their life without invoking God in his teachings. But Bahuallah, as the Returning Budda, gave his new instructions to people from his divine state of being! Then, we can conclude that Budda was wrong ignoring God in his early instructions!

    It looks there is no limits for Man’s Arrogance! As soon as few people admiring us for our charisma or our talent, we tend to boast our status beyond any known deity! This Returning Jesus who is fulfilling the prophecies of all the religions of the world is far more complete than the Jesus who fulfilled just the Jews prophecies!

    Hitler said and I paraphrase it; when you make an unbelievable lie the people tend to believe you! And the reason for that is so simple; they rationalize that this has to be true otherwise nobody dare to make this kind of outrageous lies and get away with it! In this case, Bahaullah claimed to be the embodyment of the Most Revered “Promised One” of all the religions, and Bahais are believing him whole heartily! The amazing part is, that most Bahais are highly educated and very informed people. And I thought no man could be this Gaullible, especially when you can read these kind of evidences! Bahaullah’s fradulant claims do not puzzle me at all, but so many well educated and highly intelligent people who are following this shady character is beyond my comprehension!

    May God Bless Us All,
    Unes
     
    #2 Unes, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited: May 1, 2009
  3. rcscwc

    rcscwc Member

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    Bahais claim that Bahaiullah is Kalki. So he has to be. They point that Bahaiullh is the messenger, proof quoted is that he says so., and he cannot be wrong.

    Circular arguements like that.

    But Kallki sure is HOT. Mohammed is Kalki, Jesus is Kalki, and now Bahaiullah is Kalki!!
     
  4. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

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    Only if we accept your opinions and positions, which we do not!

    And BTW, you mentioned the Christian idea of original sin. In fact, the JEWISH scriptures explicitly REJECT the concept of inherited sin, which makes the insistence of various Christians on this all the more bizarre! I refer you to Ezekiel 18:14-20 for the details. Suffice it to say we don't accept this canard, either.

    The Baha'is of the world see ample proofs for Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith. You are fully welcome to accept or reject these as you choose, ideally after first investigating them sincerely and without prejudice ("pre-judging").

    Peace,

    Bruce
     
    #4 BruceDLimber, Jun 23, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  5. Breathe

    Breathe Hostis humani generis

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    Can you actualy offer proof the Qur'an and Christianity (not merely the New Testament!!) are false?
    And why would you call the Qur'an "Holy" if it was false? :confused:
     
  6. Perfect Circle

    Perfect Circle Just Browsing

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    Not really trying to back up the OP, but...

    Exodus 20:5
    "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"

    How does that reject the concept of inherited sin?
     
  7. rcscwc

    rcscwc Member

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    Nothing is being imposed on you, contrary to what you Bahais seek to do.



    After Bahaiullah rejected Hindindu belief in Incarnates in very derogatory manner? Your prophet pre-judges every faith and you dont want others to post judge even! What hypocrisy!

    In fact Bahais are biggest frauds, pretending to follow Gita, while rejecting everything in Hinduism. Bahaiullah is a cocktail of Zoroshetra, Jesuc, Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed etc, and is presented as Lord Kalki!! Whom are you fooling?
     
  8. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

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    Greetings!

    Fine: so you now have a contradiction to attempt to resolve.

    Peace,

    Bruce
     
  9. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

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    You have already debated this elsewhere, and I don't care to repeat all that here. You can read the many replies of me and other Baha'is there.

    And for others, suffice it to say that basically no other group agrees with his particular views of Hinduism. If you want to discuss that with him, please feel free to do so in another thread.

    For anyone who has sincere questions about the Baha'i Faith (as contrasted with his non-stop put-downs because we happen to view things differently from him), I'm most happy to respond! :)

    Peace,

    Bruce
     
    #9 BruceDLimber, Jun 24, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  10. rcscwc

    rcscwc Member

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    In that "elsewhere" all the Bahais were bent upon proving, by hook and crook, that Bahaiullah IS Kalki or the prophecy about Kalki is FALSE.

    You don't care to repeat all you posted "elsewhere". You know what will happen.

    Mostly Bahais talked, and I was stiffled by the moderators. A man posted as a member then turned the JUDGE to object to my replies. No free debate was possible.

    Hindus are different. When two Hindus discuss, they are never belligerent. They may disagree but do not call the other a LIAR. Finally both part friends and feel the winner.

    As for sincere question: How is Bahaiullah is KALKI? If he is not then how is Kalki prophecy FALSE?

    Please do not give your POVS in this regard, be objective. Others too can have POVs.
     
    #10 rcscwc, Jun 24, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  11. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    I hadn't noticed this thread earlier but I thought I would add some comments..

    To hopefully clarify a few things..

    Baha'is accept the all the major religions have a Divine origin and represented important milestones in the spiritual developement of humanity..

    We cannot vouch for the accuracy however of the previous scriptures but we do very much accept the inspiration of the Bible and the revelation of Holy Qur'an.

    Essentially, the Baha'i Faith began around the year 1844 CE which is also the year 1260 AH and was an outgrowth from a movement in Shiah Islam which believed the Imam Mahdi or reappearance of the Twelfth Imam would soon occur. It was a thousand years since the disappearance of the twelfth Imam in the year 260 AH. His Holiness the Bab (the Gate) announced that He fulfilled the prophecies of the appearance of the Imam Mahdi or the Promised One.

    Before His martyrdom the Bab prophesied that God would bring a new Manifestation "Him Whom God would make Manifest" and designated the name of Baha.. In the year 1863 on an garden island on the Tigris River Baha'u'llah announced that He was the One prophesied by the Bab.

    As to Baha'u'llah being specifically the Kalkin avatar this was really I think an extension of a statement by Shoghi Effendi that Baha'u'llah fulfilled the prophesies of the "tenth avatar" and the return of Krishna:

    "He alone is meant by the prophecy attributed to Gautama Buddha Himself, that "a Buddha named Maitreye, the Buddha of universal fellowship" should, in the fullness of time, arise and reveal "His boundless glory." To Him the Bhagavad- Gita of the Hindus had referred as the "Most Great Spirit," the "Tenth Avatar," the "Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna."

    ("God Passes By", rev. ed. (Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1987), pp. 94-95)
    (Compilations, The Compilation of Compilations vol. I, p. 18)

    - Art
     
  12. Perfect Circle

    Perfect Circle Just Browsing

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    Sorry... don't want to hijack the thread, but... how do I have a contradiction to resolve? The Jewish scriptures (which I don't subscribe to) have a contradiction to resolve, but that's all I see. :shrug:
     
  13. rcscwc

    rcscwc Member

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    Gita does not mention Kalki by name. Then, Kalki is the tenth avatar for the present period of chaturuaga [four ages], after which Krishna will descend again and again. I hope you see the that there is a difference between the absolute LAST and the last during a certain period.

    Most high spirit is Parmatma, which is God himself.
     
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