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Bahaism, Buddhism and Islam, conflict or one?

Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
As I have told you in the past, the Baha'is do not need the Bible to advance our Cause, we have the Revelation of Baha'u'llah.
Out with the old, in with the new. :)
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As I have told you in the past, if Baha'u'llah was whom he claims to be, he needs the Bible to show that it prophesies about him. Christians have the revelation through Jesus but if Jesus did not fulfil the prophecies about Him then he would be nobody, a person who claimed something for himself and that is all.
It's a good thing that Jesus did more than leave a message and actually did miracles and rose from the dead,,,,,,,,,,,,things prophesied.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
As I have told you in the past, the Baha'is do not need the Bible to advance our Cause, we have the Revelation of Baha'u'llah.
Out with the old, in with the new. :)
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I honestly feel that this is all a faith only game. A lot of Bahai's I have interacted in this particular forum have been dishonest. You can kill me for saying this, but this is my observation. One has claimed to be expert in Arabic while he is worse than the LKG student in an English land. Another has claimed to have studied all the scriptures but have not even read a single chapter. Maybe you could think of this as a tirade against Bahai's but the whole purpose of this thread was because one person claimed to have studied all the scriptures so well, but cannot even remember a single verse from the most important segment he was discussing. The reason being, never even reading it leaving aside "studying it" as claimed.

There are two Bahai's I respect in this forum because though of course I dont agree with them, they are not being dishonest. Apologetics and proselytising does not mean dishonesty. Not always. Anyway, the Bahai's I consider dishonest are blocked so you know it is not you.

One thing a Bahai should accept is that most of their apologetics come from their own websites and their own leaders. Not from independent studies. Yes, some people like you have made some independent exploration, not all. Most of it comes from your own apologetic sources. That is why some of the apologetics are my God so stupendously absurd that one feels like its a dream world. In my mind I can think of so many instances in this very forum, being the most active group though small in numbers, the bahai's have shown me.

I will open another thread in criticism of the Bahai apologetics. Lets see how the Bahai's would engage with that. If you will that is.

Peace.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Brian2 said:
As I have told you in the past, if Baha'u'llah was whom he claims to be, he needs the Bible to show that it prophesies about him. Christians have the revelation through Jesus but if Jesus did not fulfil the prophecies about Him then he would be nobody, a person who claimed something for himself and that is all.
It's a good thing that Jesus did more than leave a message and actually did miracles and rose from the dead,,,,,,,,,,,,things prophesied.
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If Bahaullah is what "Bahai's" claim to be, they need the Bible, the Tipitaka, the Hindu scripture, the Quran, the Hadith, and I dont even know what else to show all of that being true. But they dont match up to any single one of them. None. I mean, not a single one.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
If Muhammed or any other rasool or Nabi was a "manifestation of God" which now you refer as a title, God would have mentioned it.
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You can believe that if you want to. I already explained why I believe Muhammad did not claim to be a Manifestation of God.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
You should maybe do a bit of background study on the Sheikhi's and where the Bab got this manifestation theology from. Its a new thing. Its not in the Quran, which you believe is Gods word, but you are banking on a new thing which the Bab's predecessors had developed.
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I am not banking on it, it is already in the bank and has been for over 50 years.
My Baha'i beliefs are not predicated on any past religions and do not rely upon them.

The Revelation of Baha'u'llah is a standalone, a new religion, and I do not need to refer to older religions to prove it is true or to have confidence that it is true. It stands on its own merit and I just know it is true.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
You can believe that if you want to. I already explained why I believe Muhammad did not claim to be a Manifestation of God.
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Nah. You just turned it into my "belief". But this is about your belief, which does not have any bearing in the so called word of God you claim, vis a vis, the Quran. You did not explain anything. You just had some "might be's" and "might haves".
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
I am not banking on it, it is already in the bank and has been for over 50 years.
My Baha'i beliefs are not predicated on any past religions and do not rely upon them.

The Revelation of Baha'u'llah is a standalone, a new religion, and I do not need to refer to older religions to prove it is true or to have confidence that it is true. It stands on its own merit and I just know it is true.
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Yeah. But that explanation is not good enough for this thread.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
If Bahaullah is what "Bahai's" claim to be, they need the Bible, the Tipitaka, the Hindu scripture, the Quran, the Hadith, and I dont even know what else to show all of that being true. But they dont match up to any single one of them. None. I mean, not a single one.
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We do not need any of those to know the Baha'i Faith is true and they don't match up because they are different religions. Thus trying to use those other scriptures to prove that Baha'i Faith is true is an exercise in futility.

Maybe you do not really understand what the Baha'i Faith is claiming and how it is related to the older religions.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
Nothing ever is good enough.
I did not come here to prove anything, I just stopped by to see what was going on.
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Nah. Its not nothing ever. Thats a typical one actually to hear.

This thread is exploring what is said in the OP. Not if "Bahaullah or anyone of your faith said it". Presume you understand this simple fact. So that's why your explanation that "because we say so" is not good enough. Actually its irrelevant. Not good at all.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
Again, please read the OP. It is not if you need anything or not to have your faith. So I understand that this is all your faith but that's not a relevant response to this thread.
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If you want to control what is posted on this thread I will leave as soon as I answer the posts I got last night.
Owing to a lack of familiarity on the subject matter I am not in a position to discuss what you posed in your OP and I really do not have any interest in such a discussion.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Brian2 said:
It is that and most of those whom Baha'i claim to be Manifestations of God did not see themselves as that, but only as men.
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I do not know how we can know how they saw themselves.
Even if they identified themselves as prophets, that does not mean they were not more than prophets. Jesus called Himself a prophet, but we know that He was more than that. Moreover, some prophets are Manifestations of God and some are not.

The Three Kinds of Prophets
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Brian2 said:
As I have told you in the past, if Baha'u'llah was whom he claims to be, he needs the Bible to show that it prophesies about him.
Click to expand...
It is not Baha'u'llah who needs the Bible to show that prophecies are about Him, because Baha'u'llah already stated what was proof of His claims and that is on this link, second paragraph down: Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

If Christians do not want to look at that proof then Christians can look at Baha'u'llah and what He did on His mission, in order to determine if Baha'u'llah fulfilled the Bible prophecies.
Brian2 said:
Christians have the revelation through Jesus but if Jesus did not fulfil the prophecies about Him then he would be nobody, a person who claimed something for himself and that is all.
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I do not believe that is true. Jesus would still be who He was regardless of the prophecies He fulfilled. The Old Testament prophecies are just one way for the believers to know who Jesus was. The New Testament that show the life and works of Jesus stands on its own merit. How many Christians do you think became Christians because of Old Testament prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus?

Prophecies can help or they can hurt in recognizing the man who fulfilled them. In fact, the misconstruing of the Old Testament prophecies is one reason that Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah, as Abdu'l-Baha explained in Some Answered Questions.

Likewise, the misconstruing of the meaning if the Old Testament prophecies and the New Testament prophecies is one reason that Jews and Christians have rejected Baha'u'llah. But if they really looked at these prophecies with and open mind, rather than with their own bias and expectations, they might be able to see how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
If you want to control what is posted on this thread I will leave as soon as I answer the posts I got last night.
Owing to a lack of familiarity on the subject matter I am not in a position to discuss what you posed in your OP and I really do not have any interest in such a discussion.
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Great. I respect that.
 
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