Bahaism, Buddhism and Islam, conflict or one?

[Vinayaka]

I'm out of here.

Bahai's know more about Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, and Islam, than the adherents.

"Baha'is believe that Buddha was a Manifestation of God, like Christ, but that his followers do not possess His authentic writings."

Buddhism and the Baha’i Faith

Presumably this means the world's 500 million Buddhists are fundamentally misguided and require guidance from another religion? A little patronising and arrogant, and all effectively done in the name of appropriation.

You're not alone. All religions have to face it when dealing with the 'latest revelation'. I see you've left. That's wise, as you won't get anywhere.

 

[loverofhumanity]

"Baha'is believe that Buddha was a Manifestation of God, like Christ, but that his followers do not possess His authentic writings."

Buddhism and the Baha’i Faith

Presumably this means the world's 500 million Buddhists are fundamentally misguided and require guidance from another religion? A little patronising and arrogant, and all effectively done in the name of appropriation.

Here’s the scenario I’d like to present and for you to think about.

Buddha returns but teaches there is a God and informs us of the above. Is it offensive if Buddha Himself tells this to Buddhists because thats what we believe has occurred. How can it be patronising or arrogant if it’s coming from Maitreya Himself Who Buddhists were told to turn to when He appeared.

If Buddhist had not lost these teachings why then did Gautama see a need for Maitreya to appear at all?

Buddha said everything decays and that gradually His Dhamma would decline through 5 disappearances over 5,000 years but because women entered the samgha, His faith would be halved - 2,500 years. That time has come and gone.

The disappearances are speaking of spiritual disappearances not physical. You look at Buddhist nations now like Burma, amongst the most violent in the world with even children being killed daily. Where has the spirit of Buddhism gone? It is dead. That is why Maitreya had to come I believe, to renew the spirit.

 

[Vinayaka]

Where has the spirit of Buddhism gone? It is dead. That is why Maitreya had to come I believe, to renew the spirit.

There are several Buddhist temples in my city. I've been to a couple. They're beautiful places, a living peaceful beautiful tradition. They are my brothers in dharma. Many North Americans see the beauty of it's esoteric teachings.

And you claim it's dead?

 

[loverofhumanity]

You do however have a problem in the case of Sarkar as his many talks have been recorded quite well and of course are somewhat recent even more so than those of Bahaullah.

So in his case the idea that the teachings of so-called "other religions" were distorted does not apply.
I wonder what Bahai's would think about the teachings of Sarkar if they studied them.
The two preceptors don't take the same perspective although they are both quite universal in their approach.

All truth is accepted. There is no competition between whatever benefits humanity. All that is good is what we believe. Our vision and identity we believe needs to broaden to include all humanity, races, nations and religions.

I’m not sure but I believe Sarkar teaches universalism. I think many of us are on the same page here.

Do you have a website which is best for me to investigate Sarkar further please? I’d appreciate that.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There are several Buddhist temples in my city. I've been to a couple. They're beautiful places, a living peaceful beautiful tradition. They are my brothers in dharma. Many North Americans see the beauty of it's esoteric teachings.

And you claim it's dead?

Go to Burma and see the mass slaughter and show me where Buddhism is. The monks there accept gifts from the army and so turn a blind eye to the slaughter. We are not talking here about an isolated friendly Buddhist temple but an entire Buddhist nation which has lost its spirit of non violence and has descended into anarchy, war crimes and mass murder.

I have family there. We see the brutality. It is as evil as the worst terrorism we have ever witnessed. And ASEAN which also has Buddhist members is to welcome a wanted war criminal. Where has the stance of non violence Buddhism gone when Buddhist nations host war criminals?

It means that what Buddha taught has become mere lip service and subservient to political agendas. Isn’t this the exact opposite of the life of King Ashoka where he denounced violence after converting to Buddhism? Where is that spirit now?

 

[Vinayaka]

Go to Burma and see the mass slaughter and show me where Buddhism is. The monks there accept gifts from the army and so turn a blind eye to the slaughter. We are not talking here about an isolated friendly Buddhist temple but an entire Buddhist nation which has lost its spirit of non violence and has descended into anarchy, war crimes and mass murder.

I have family there. We see the brutality. It is as evil as the worst terrorism we have ever witnessed. And ASEAN which also has Buddhist members is to welcome a wanted war criminal. Where has the stance of non violence Buddhism gone when Buddhist nations host war criminals?

It means that what Buddha taught has become mere lip service and subservient to political agendas. Isn’t this the exact opposite of the life of King Ashoka where he denounced violence after converting to Buddhism? Where is that spirit now?

It's Myanmar I believe. (Since 1989) China has 244 million Buddhist adherents. Thailand has 64 million. Japan has 45 million. Of the 38 million in Myanmar, most likely many are peaceful citizens watching a political movement happen. In short, if you read up on it, it's incredibly complicated, as are all such conflicts. To take that single ethno-political conflict, and claim that Buddhism is dead is just folly. To further claim that the way to make it alive again is for all of them to accept Baha'ullah is further folly. Sorry. But I will be out. Readers might benefit from what the Buddhists have said here. Hopefully.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Bahai's know more about Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, and Islam, than the adherents.


You're not alone. All religions have to face it when dealing with the 'latest revelation'. I see you've left. That's wise, as you won't get anywhere.

There always seems to be the open and closed assumption that we are wrong. What if we are telling the truth that Baha’u’llah is the Promised One of all religions? If it’s true about Baha’u’llah then wouldn’t that mean Hindus have missed Kalki Avatar, Christians the return of Christ and so on?

So It’s inconceivable to you that we could be telling the truth? So sad.

 

[Brian2]

Those perevious scriptures did not explicitly use the term manifestation of God for Buddha, Muhammad or even Jesus. But there are verses that can be shown to be compatible with Bahai definition of Manifestation of God.

One of the main reasons a new revelation comes, is to teach humanity more about Truth. So, this is why, in Bahai Scriptures, we can find things which could not be seen or learned easily from pervious Holy Scriptures.

It is not just a case of new things being added in the Baha'i scriptures. In Baha'i scriptures there are things which outright contradict things in other scriptures.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It is not just a case of new things being added in the Baha'i scriptures. In Baha'i scriptures there are things which outright contradict things in other scriptures.

It always looks like, a newer scripture, contradicts older scriptures. Ask Jews, or atheists, they will say, new Testament contradicts Hebrew Bible.

 

[Brian2]

Baha’u’llah claims all the major religions come from the same Source and so are connected to one another, not separate entities. That each confirms the previous religion and promises the continuity of revelation by foretelling the teacher to come.

Baha'is have to disagree with most of all religions and pick and choose from the scriptures those ones that are closest to what Baha'u'llah taught.
The fact is that what Baha'u'llah said contradicts other scriptures and so to say the religions are from the same source sounds wrong unless you also say that the teachings of those religions are wrong and have been corrupted.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I'm out of here.

I mean, such discourses attributed to Buddha claiming to be All-knowing, All-powerful, can easily be understood, as He was claiming to be who, the Abrahamic Religions refer to as God.
He may not have used the term God, regarding Himself, but He talked about Himself having the attributes of the Abrahamic God, who is All-knowing, All-powerful.
So, what difference does it make, if one says I am God, or I am All-knowing, All-powerful?

 

[firedragon]

OK, so one possibility is that you're offering up these opinions as observable fact but that takes us to proving a negative which is impossible.

These books are in print. So easily readable.

 

[firedragon]

The term Manifestation of God is not the only title Used by Baha’u’llah to describe the Great Teachers of the past. He also refers to them as the ‘Suns of Truth’, the ‘Educators of Mankind’, Immortal Beings, Day-Stars of Truth so we are not held to one description of these Great Beings Who are responsible for the spiritual education of billions throughout the world.

Buddha for instance may not be known to Buddhists as a Manifestation of God but as an Educator or Spiritual Teacher. He can be called a Sun of Truth as He taught truth. Many of these terms are interchangeable with any of the Great Teachers. It’s just a title which Baha’u’llah has given Them to describe Their exalted station.

Similarly Baha’u’llah is viewed by Baha’is as an Avatar, a Buddha and so on. These are all spiritual titles that are not exclusive to one religion or another because they also have general, universally applicable meanings which can be attributed to any One of These Teachers. The term Avatar means ‘Manifestation of a Deity’. Christ is known as the Son of God and Son of Man, Muhammad a Prophet.

But we believe They are One with regards to teaching a spiritual and Holy life of virtues and good character.

Not all the records we possess though can be proven to be authentic. Authors of many of the Revelations of the past are unknown to us. Records only really begin to be verifiable with the Quran then after that the Writings of the Bab and Baha’u’llah in Their own handwriting sealed and signed.

Baha’u’llah claims all the major religions come from the same Source and so are connected to one another, not separate entities. That each confirms the previous religion and promises the continuity of revelation by foretelling the teacher to come.

Under differing names and guises you will find in all the worlds scriptures, the promise of a Great One to appear at the time of the end to usher in a new age.

So we Baha’is understand that any of the various titles can be applied to any of the Great Teachers as They are all interconnected. So Christ was as much a Buddha as Buddha was an Avatar. They all promote the spiritual well-being of humanity.

Bottomline is, there is nothing in the Thripitaka or the Quran about any of them being "manifestations of God".

 

[loverofhumanity]

It is not just a case of new things being added in the Baha'i scriptures. In Baha'i scriptures there are things which outright contradict things in other scriptures.

I don’t believe that at all. I believe they are in full harmony with each other. It’s conflicting man made interpretations which are the cause of seeming contradictions, but in reality I believe the scriptures confirm the truth of each other.

 

[Marcion]

I’m not sure but I believe Sarkar teaches universalism. I think many of us are on the same page here.

Do you have a website which is best for me to investigate Sarkar further please? I’d appreciate that.

Just googling for some page that speaks of Taraka Brahma:

WALKING WITH MY MASTER - Taraka Brahma

The Coming of Taraka Brahma
Brahma Cakra: The Cycle of Creation

So, where Bahaullah seems to focus on prophets or divine manifestations and many Hindus focus on avatars, Sarkar stresses the recurrence of Taraka Brahma, who is however each time a unique personality but with similar qualities (that of a bhagavan, someone who controls all of the bhags or occult powers and has other specific qualities such as those of a mahakaula).

Both Shiva and Krishna were earlier advents of Taraka Brahma.

A quote from the third page I found:

"To attain moksa Shrii Shrii Anandamurti introduces a unique concept: Taraka Brahma. According to Ananda Marga philosophy, Brahma exists as the manifested universe (Saguna) and another infinite portion of Brahma remains beyond the influence of the operative principle and is undifferentiated (Nirguna). The link between the manifested and unmanifested Brahma is Taraka Brahma which means Brahma the liberator. If a tangent is drawn touching the ellipse which we use to represent Saguna Brahma, the tangential point is a point which is both inside and outside the ellipse.

This point is Saguna and at the same time is also Nirguna. This point is Taraka Brahma. The great spiritual teachers who appear from time to time in human history are embodiments of this tangential entity whose role is to guide individuals to complete self-realization and ultimate union with Nirguna Brahma. The concept of Taraka Brahma is a devotional concept and explains the reverence which is given to great spiritual masters."

I would never say that the theory of Bahaullah is wrong. But after learning about the many qualities of Taraka Brahma in Sarkar's books about Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna, my focus is on this frame more than on other frames.

 

[Brian2]

It always looks like, a newer scripture, contradicts older scriptures. Ask Jews, or atheists, they will say, new Testament contradicts Hebrew Bible.

Of course the Jews say that we contradict the older scriptures and do not fulfil. There is a big difference however and that is that the Christians believe all of what the Hebrew scriptures say but the Baha'is have end up denying much of the Old and New Testament (and other religions also) in order for them to advance their cause.

 

[Brian2]

I don’t believe that at all. I believe they are in full harmony with each other. It’s conflicting man made interpretations which are the cause of seeming contradictions, but in reality I believe the scriptures confirm the truth of each other.

One example
Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

The Baha'i turn this one on it's head and end up saying that a different person (not the same Jesus) will come (not come back) in a different way than the disciples saw Jesus go.

I could go on and give other examples if you like.
There is a outright denial that the resurrection of Jesus as shown in the gospels ever took place and this is despite Abdul Baha (I think) saying that the gospels are the remembrance by the disciples of what Jesus said and did. Do you think they could not remember that bit, whether He rose from the dead or not?
And it goes on like that scripture after scripture.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Just googling for some page that speaks of Taraka Brahma:

WALKING WITH MY MASTER - Taraka Brahma

The Coming of Taraka Brahma
Brahma Cakra: The Cycle of Creation

So, where Bahaullah seems to focus on prophets or divine manifestations and many Hindus focus on avatars, Sarkar stresses the recurrence of Taraka Brahma, who is however each time a unique personality but with similar qualities (that of a bhagavan, someone who controls all of the bhags or occult powers and has other specific qualities such as those of a mahakaula).

Both Shiva and Krishna were earlier advents of Taraka Brahma.

A quote from the third page I found:

"To attain moksa Shrii Shrii Anandamurti introduces a unique concept: Taraka Brahma. According to Ananda Marga philosophy, Brahma exists as the manifested universe (Saguna) and another infinite portion of Brahma remains beyond the influence of the operative principle and is undifferentiated (Nirguna). The link between the manifested and unmanifested Brahma is Taraka Brahma which means Brahma the liberator. If a tangent is drawn touching the ellipse which we use to represent Saguna Brahma, the tangential point is a point which is both inside and outside the ellipse.

This point is Saguna and at the same time is also Nirguna. This point is Taraka Brahma. The great spiritual teachers who appear from time to time in human history are embodiments of this tangential entity whose role is to guide individuals to complete self-realization and ultimate union with Nirguna Brahma. The concept of Taraka Brahma is a devotional concept and explains the reverence which is given to great spiritual masters."

I would never say that the theory of Bahaullah is wrong. But after learning about the many qualities of Taraka Brahma in Sarkar's books about Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna, my focus is on this frame more than on other frames.

This is very nice. I listened to the songs, so spiritual. I have very little understanding of this so if you can suggest some book I would be grateful.

 

[Marcion]

This is very nice. I listened to the songs, so spiritual. I have very little understanding of this so if you can suggest some book I would be grateful.

They are all mystical songs.

On that one page I gave there is also a link to their publications.
Spiritual Philosophy – Ananda Marga Publications

I would recommend reading the book on Shiva:
Namah Shiváya Shántáya – Ananda Marga Publications
There is also one on Krishna's life and mission:
Namámi Krsna Sundaram – Ananda Marga Publications
My own favourite is a summary of their philosophy:
Ananda Marga Elementary Philosophy – Ananda Marga Publications
And I like the lecture series on Tantra (there is also a Part 1):
Discourses on Tantra Volume 2 – Ananda Marga Publications

You will also learn a lot about the historical development of types of Hinduism by reading their books on Shiva and Krishna and the lecture series on Tantra.

 

[loverofhumanity]

They are all mystical songs.

On that one page I gave there is also a link to their publications.
Spiritual Philosophy – Ananda Marga Publications

I would recommend reading the book on Shiva:
Namah Shiváya Shántáya – Ananda Marga Publications
There is also one on Krishna's life and mission:
Namámi Krsna Sundaram – Ananda Marga Publications
My own favourite is a summary of their philosophy:
Ananda Marga Elementary Philosophy – Ananda Marga Publications
And I like the lecture series on Tantra (there is also a Part 1):
Discourses on Tantra Volume 2 – Ananda Marga Publications

You will also learn a lot about the historical development of types of Hinduism by reading their books on Shiva and Krishna and the lecture series on Tantra.

Thanks for these precious books. Are there any available as ebooks? Again many thanks for sharing.