Then Baha'ullah's opinion. (claim, as you say) which transfers over to all Baha'i, unless you don't accept Baha'u'llah's opinion, which would make you a non-Baha'i, right? Shiver me timbers.
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Baha'i Vs Christ
- Thread starter wizanda
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Then Baha'ullah's opinion. (claim, as you say) which transfers over to all Baha'i, unless you don't accept Baha'u'llah's opinion, which would make you a non-Baha'i, right? Shiver me timbers.
Since you're not qualified on exegesis to even notice what has already been said, and debate it, then guess the case is close.
Since my opinion happens to be an archangel with the name exegesis (Zand); before what is possibly the end of time - it is interesting when a Baha'i rejects their own faith...
Do take into account prophetic timelines of a thousand years, could mean 100; which makes the Baha'i on here in violation of their own religion, for rejecting a manifestation from God.
In my opinion.
You have thus confirmed rejection of your opinion.
“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God,” is the express warning uttered in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, “ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying imposter. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will no doubt forgive him. If, however, he persists in his error, God will assuredly send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible indeed is God in punishing!” “Whosoever,” He adds as a further emphasis, “interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things.” “Should a man appear,” is yet another conclusive statement, “ere the lapse of a full thousand years—each year consisting of twelve months according to the Qur’án, and of nineteen months of nineteen days each, according to the Bayán—and if such a man reveal to your eyes all the signs of God, unhesitatingly reject him!”
Thus with that, I can only wish you well in life and hope all goes well.
Regards Tony
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If you see Bah'u'llah's Revelation from God as His personal opinion, that is fine.
I will tell you when I give my opinion on what Baha'u'llah offered from God. Otherwise it is what Baha'u'llah offered.
We have talked about this before.
Regards Tony
Tony, I was just retelling what you said. You used the word 'claim' which is essentially a synonym for opinion. 'Offered' is similar. Good to see you have doubts about his 'claims' That's a big step towards freeing oneself from rigid dogma.
Since you've posed no debate why Baha'u'llah hasn't defiled other scriptures, then Baha'i have no evidence in their argument.
In my opinion.
Since you've posed no debate why Baha'u'llah hasn't defiled other scriptures, then Baha'i have no evidence in their argument.
In my opinion.
Which other Message accepts all the past Manifestations, Messengers, Prophets and holy people as being from and inspired by God and see them all as One?
Thus to hold all these Messages in the same brilliant light, that they are all from God, can only be defiled by one who says one is better than another.
Regards Tony
I believe Satya Sai has a similar way of simplifying the pantheon of elevated spiritual personalities.
Yes I can see why that is so.
Who is Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba?
A Declararion made in October 1940.
It is good to know we can work in harmony for the good of all.
Regards Tony
OK! Shiver your timbers. The above is pure nonsense!
Oh, just trying to get the person to write things in a manner which I can understand.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I ask this of Baha'is all the time. Do you believe all religions are one? You'd probably say "yes". But, which religion, as practiced today, other than the Baha'i Faith, would you say teaches the truth about God and what God expects from us? Since this thread is about the Baha'i Faith and Christ, which Christian Church today teaches the truth about God and Jesus? I don't see how you can say that any of them teach the truth about God, because they all contradict what the Baha'i Faith teaches. But, if you do admit that and say "no", then you're saying that religions today, including and especially Christianity, are not one and they all teach different things about God and they are all wrong. The only right one is the Baha'i Faith.
So that also means that "no" you don't believe all the past manifestations and prophets... as taught and believed by the religions and people that follow them. The only thing Baha'is believe is their own interpretation of all those religions. And part of that belief in those other religions is that all of them have gotten off track and lost the "original" "true" teaching. Which is something that doesn't exist. By accepting the Baha'i interpretation, Baha'is can say they believe all religions are one, but it's only because Baha'is eliminate all the things in the other religions that they don't agree with. So sure, there is a "oneness". Sure, all religions agree. But, for Baha'is, in what it believes and in how it is practiced, there is one religion you believe is better than all the others that have lost their way and have gotten off track... and that is your religion, the Baha'i Faith. You can deny this all you want, but this is what it looks like to some of the rest of us.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
So you believe Sai Baba is an Avatar?
No I do not beleive he was an Avatar. But he appears to have picked up on a lot of good that came from the Message of Baha'u'llah. Thus I can see why people were drawn to him.
Regards Tony
arthra
Baha'i
What I was alluding to was the Jewish Christians or "Judaizers" as they were called by more Hellenized Christians of the time were caught between the Jewish hierarchy and the more Hellenized Christians who spoke Greek. The earlier Aramaic speaking Christians were lost.. Early Christian writers realized this:
"According to Josephus James was stoned to death by Ananus ben Ananus.[75]
"Clement of Alexandria relates that "James was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple, and was beaten to death with a club".[68]
"Hegesippus cites that "the Scribes and Pharisees placed James upon the pinnacle of the temple, and threw down the just man, and they began to stone him, for he was not killed by the fall. And one of them, who was a fuller, took the club with which he beat out clothes and struck the just man on the head".[68]
James, brother of Jesus - Wikipedia
James had been the head of the Church of Jerusalem and recognized by Paul who met with him.
In time after the fall of Jerusalem and the diaspora a good many of the earlier Jewish for of Christianity was lost or suppressed in my view.
In the case of the Baha'i Faith the authorized text and succession was followed. We don't say the disciples buried Jesus and no one knows for sure as the remains of Jesus were supposed to be in the custody of Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea who were "secret" disciples.
There are by the way some interesting parallels between the martyr of the Bab and the crucifixion.
See:
Martyrdom of the Bab
I also wish to clarify how Baha'u'llah is seen as "the Father" it is closer to the idea that as a Manifestation He reflected the attributes of God in fulfillment of prophecy:
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."
~ Matthew 16:27 KJV
"Now as regards the signs that would herald the advent of the new Manifestation. The Guardian wishes you to read over very carefully Bahá'u'lláh's explanation as recorded in the Íqán'. There it is made clear that what is meant by the appearance of the Son of God after the calamitous events preceding His coming is the revelation of His full glory and its recognition and acceptance by the peoples of the world, and not his physical appearance. For Bahá'u'lláh, Whose advent marks the return of the Son in the Glory of the Father, has already appeared, and the signs predicted in the Gospel have not yet fully been realized. Their complete fulfilment, however, would mark the beginning of the recognition of His full station by the peoples of the world, Then and only then will His appearance be made completely manifest."
(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, November 29, 1937)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 492)
Seeing stuff as one, that doesn't fit together properly, is called what?
Like we appreciate Oneness, we both accept the unity of God, and I accept everyone as a manifestation within the reality structured from the one CPU.
So I get Baha'u'llah had some form of inspiration to lead to such convictions; yet so did Muhammad, and Moses, certain people go on crazy legalistic religious spins because they've had mystical revelation.
The problem comes when someone starts changing their name, starting a religion, and making it all about them.
In my opinion.
We see the Messengers of each Religion all part of the same Holy Spirit, in that sense they are One in Spirit.
Each have a specific Message given at a specific time and in that aspect they appear to differ. We are told to make no difference between their Persons or their Messages, as all come from the One God.
You do know we have discussed this in much greater detail before and you still post back aspects that are not correct. This is where one must study for their own selves.
Regards Tony
This ties back into the 5 Levels of Spirit.
We are born of the Human Spirit (3rd level) and need the Spirit of Faith to connect with the Holy Spirit. We have been born at the end of darkness and the beginning of light.
All the Messengers are born of the Holy Spirit, they are the light we strive for. I personally see this in the metephor of the virgin birth of Christ. Though born of a women, they are in reality born of God.
This is why the Bible talks about us needing to be born again in this life, born from the flesh to the Spirit.
Regards Tony
We would welcome it. Please feel most welcome to do so. Scrutinise, challenge, criticise and try and correct us as much as you like because if something is true it will be able to withstand all the scrutiny in the world. We very much welcome all and any questions or criticisms The only way to distinguish true gold from dross is by putting it in the fire of questioning and scrutiny. We can learn from you too so if you feel we are wrong or do not understand something I’m happy to look into it with an open mind.
How great, how very great is the Cause! How very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindreds of the earth. Ere long shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America, the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from far and near. One and all, they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause. Then shall the knights of the Lord, assisted by His grace from on high, strengthened by faith, aided by the power of understanding, and reinforced by the legions of the Covenant, arise and make manifest the truth of the verse: ‘Behold the confusion that hath befallen the tribes of the defeated!’”
Baha’u’llah said that anyone who claimed to be a Manifestation of God within the next thousand years is a lying imposte so I won’t worry about such a claim.
I won’t be upset or angry or have any sentiments like that. These things are expected to occur so we won’t be upset or displeased.
Hi CG,
People,just can’t seem to fathom that we really do believe in their religion as much if not more than they themselves do. It seems impossible of comprehension by some.
I’ve got so many Qurans and Bibles and Gita. This is a snapshot of my Kindle library and I couldn’t fit it all in the screenshot. The number is the number if books and that does not include my books in the iBook app which covers even more topics. I have a research department on my iPad and all these books point to our oneness.
If I were asked to deny Christ or Buddha or Muhammad or Krishna or Moses or Zoroaster or be killed I would prefer death. Our attachment to these faiths is not superficial but we really believe in thrm just not as they do as you said. They are part of us in our hearts and minds. We read from all their Holy Books in our Houses of Worship all over the world. We feel oneness not an us and them.
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