Baha'i modernising other religions?

[Rival]

*Mod note* Moved this conversation to its own thread.*Mod note*

I believe the Baha'i Revelation is indeed dragging Islam, Christianity and Judaism into the 21st century.

Mate, you wish.

 

[shunyadragon]

Mate, you wish.

Mate you wish not.

 

[Rival]

Mate you wish not.

Most people haven't even heard of Baha'ism, let alone it having anything whatsoever to do with modernising religions. The Enlightenment happened before Baha'ism even existed. So give us all a break with this 'Baha'ism will change the world' crap. It's the delusional fantasy of a minority religion no-one has ever heard of.

 

[shunyadragon]

Most people haven't even heard of Baha'ism, let alone it having anything whatsoever to do with modernising religions. The Enlightenment happened before Baha'ism even existed. So give us all a break with this 'Baha'ism will change the world' crap. It's the delusional fantasy of a minority religion no-one has ever heard of.

Your acrid judgmental attack on what others believe is more a reflection on the problems with your own belief than your attack on others. It would be obvious that you would have the same acrid objections toward Christianity and Islam since they both would be wanting to, as you say, reform or modernize, or fulfill and replace older ancient religions like yours.

The issue of whether other people have heard or know about the Baha'i Faith is a non-issue and a smelly 'Red Herring' you pitched out onto the dock.

 

[Rival]

Your acrid judgmental attack on what others believe is more a reflection on the problems with your own belief than your attack on others. It would be obvious that you would have the same acrid objections toward Christianity and Islam since they both would be wanting to, as you say, reform or modernize, or fulfill and replace older ancient religions like yours.

The issue of whether other people have heard or know about the Baha'i Faith is a non-issue and a smelly 'Red Herring' you pitched out onto the dock.

I have no doubts about my own faith whatsoever; in fact, I have recently once more looked into converting to Judaism. However, your assessment that it's only Christianity and Islam 'wanting to, as you say, reform or modernize, or fulfil and replace older ancient religions like yours.' is dishonest, as your own faith should be named too. Baha'ism is open that its mission is to replace all these religions; mine also. It makes grand claims it cannot support, like the one you just made about it reforming mine and others' faiths. Baha'ism has had all of no effect on Judaism, or Christianity, or Islam. It's a minority religion with aims far beyond its realistic reach.

If people have not heard of it, it cannot reform anything. No-one will convert, no-one will care. They'll go on with their own religions as if Baha'ism didn't exist - which is exactly what most people are doing. More people are converting to Islam than to Baha'ism; hell, more people are still converting to Christianity.

I'm acidic because Baha'ism makes these arrogant claims that it can supplant or reform other faiths, for which it has absolutely no authority whatsoever.

 

[shunyadragon]

I have no doubts about my own faith whatsoever; in fact, I have recently once more looked into converting to Judaism. However, your assessment that it's only Christianity and Islam 'wanting to, as you say, reform or modernize, or fulfil and replace older ancient religions like yours.' is dishonest, as your own faith should be named too. Baha'ism is open that its mission is to replace all these religions, mine also. It makes grand claims it cannot support, like the one you just made about it reforming mine and others' faiths. Baha'ism has had all of no effect on Judaism, or Christianity, or Islam. It's a minority religion with aims far beyond its realistic reach.

I believe by the facts that Noahide is simply one variation of Judaism, nothing less and nothing more. I believe you are being dishonest as to the nature of your own belief system.

Yes, Christianity and Islam believe the fulfill, replace, reform and/or modernize the more ancient belief systems like yours more aggressively than the Baha'i Faith.

From: Noahidism - Wikipedia:
"Some Jewish religious groups have been particularly active in promoting the Seven Laws, notably the Chabad-Lubavitch movement (whose late leader, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, launched the global Noahide Campaign), groups affiliated with Dor Daim.""

If people have not heard of it, it cannot reform anything. No-one will convert, no-one will care. They'll go on with their own religions as if Baha'ism didn't exist - which is exactly what most people are doing. More people are converting to Islam than to Baha'ism; hell, more people are still converting to Christianity.

I'm acidic because Baha'ism makes these arrogant claims that it can supplant or reform other faiths, for which it has absolutely no authority whatsoever.

Your claims are far more arrogant and acrid and unnecessarily hostile toward the Baha'i Faith, which reflects your own insecurity and problems and not those of the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Rival]

I believe by the facts that Noahide is simply one variation of Judaism, nothing less and nothing more. I believe you are being dishonest as to the nature of your own belief system.

Yes, Christianity and Islam belie the fulfill, replace, reform and/or modernize the more ancient belief systems like yours more aggressively than the Baha'i Faith.

From: Noahidism - Wikipedia:
"Some Jewish religious groups have been particularly active in promoting the Seven Laws, notably the Chabad-Lubavitch movement (whose late leader, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, launched the global Noahide Campaign), groups affiliated with Dor Daim.""

Noahidism is not a variant of Judaism. There was a time before Judaism existed and, according to both of our worldviews, people still had a belief in a single, all-powerful creator G-d. That is, G-d, A-lah, whatever one calls Him. My faith calls these people Noahides. If you want to argue that Noahidism isn't a religion, you would be totally right. It is not a religion, it is a belief in G-d the same way one believes in the sky or the moon; just a part of one's life. By virtue of the fact that Judaism exists - in any form - Noahidism too must exist, as there are non-Jewish people who believe in G-d, the same G-d of the Jews, but are not Jews. There is no requirement to convert to Judaism, but these people can serve the Creator and worship Him all the same. These people are Noahides.

Still, the fact that you basically tried to invalidate my faith was pretty nasty, but it's OK because you're wrong.

Your claims are far more arrogant and acrid and unnecessarily hostile toward the Baha'i Faith, which reflects your own insecurity and problems and not those of the Baha'i Faith.

How? What insecurity? Stop trying to invalidate my faith. Would you like to know what? I hate the Baha'i faith. I hate it because it's a faith that tries to take figures from every religion known to man and incorporate them into its narrative and say they all taught the same thing, from Krishna to Abraham to The Buddha. It also thinks that one day it will dominate the world. It's a mess of world faiths put in a blender and turned into an unrecognisable mush. No other faith is so arrogant as to take any and every religious figure and claim them for its own. Your faith is insane.

 

[shunyadragon]

Noahidism is not a variant of Judaism. There was a time before Judaism existed and, according to both of our worldviews, people still had a belief in a single, all-powerful creator G-d. That is, G-d, A-lah, whatever one calls Him. My faith calls these people Noahides. If you want to argue that Noahidism isn't a religion, you would be totally right. It is not a religion, it is a belief in G-d the same way one believes in the sky or the moon; just a part of one's life. By virtue of that fact that Judaism exists - in any form - Noahidism too must exist, as there are non-Jewish people who believe in G-d, the same G-d of the Jews, but are not Jews. There is no requirement to convert to Judaism, but these people can serve the Creator and worship Him all the same. These people are Noahides.

Still, the fact that you basically tried to invalidate my faith was pretty nasty, but it's OK because you're wrong.



How? What insecurity? Stop trying to invalidate my faith. Would you like to know what? I hate the Baha'i faith. I hate it because it's a faith that tries to take figures from every religion known to man and incorporate them into its narrative and say they all taught the same thing, from Krishna to Abraham to The Buddha. It also thinks that one day it will dominate the world. It's a mess of world faiths put in a blender and turned into an unrecognisable mush. No other faith is so arrogant as to take any and every religious figure and claim them for it's own. Your faith is insane.

Your venomous hatred of the Baha'i Faith is a clear witness to the problem and a barrier to any possible dialogue.

My view of Hoahide is not dishonest, In fact every source I find on the internet describes Noahide as a variant of Judaism, despite your delusions that it is not. IT is like JW claiming it is not a Christian Church and they are not Christians,

 

[Rival]

My view of Hoahide is not dishonest, In fact every source I find on the internet describes Noahide as a variant of Judaism, despite your delusions that it is not. IT is like JW claiming it is not a Christian Church and they are not Christians,

Noahides are not Jews. A Noahide is by definition not a Jew. What don't you understand about this? A Noahide is a non-Jew who worships the G-d of the Jews, because Judaism is not a universalist religion that wants everyone to join it. This is not a difficult concept.

 

[Rival]

Your venomous hatred of the Baha'i Faith is a clear witness to the problem and a barrier to any possible dialogue.

You just told me my faith doesn't exist. What meaningful dialog could possibly ensue from there?

 

[shunyadragon]

You just told me my faith doesn't exist. What meaningful dialog could possibly ensue from there?

It indeed exists without question. It is your venomous hatred of the Baha'i Faith is a clear witness to the problem and a barrier to any possible dialogue out of the starting gate with your first acrid hate filled post.

 

[Rival]

It indeed exists without question. It is your venomous hatred of the Baha'i Faith is a clear witness to the problem and a barrier to any possible dialogue out of the starting gate with your first acrid hate filled post.

There is no dialog to be had. Your faith wants to replace mine and all others before it. This is your faith's core mission. I am not really one for dialoguing with people who want to wipe me out and tell me mine and others' religions are somehow broken and need upgrading.

 

[shunyadragon]

There is no dialog to be had. Your faith wants to replace mine and all others before it. This is your faith's underlying, core mission. I am not really one for dialoguing with people who want to wipe me out and tell me mine and others' religions are somehow broken and need upgrading.

Than you do not wish to dialogue with Christians nor Muslims. Your extreme antagonistic view that the Baha'i Faith is going to wipe older religions out is aggressively over the top exaggeration, and does not reflect the reality of the Baha'i Faith. It is variations of Christianity and Islam that aggressively propose a Manifest Destiny of domination, and taking over the world,,some by force, and not the Baha'i Faith.

The Baha'i Faith strongly advocates the religious freedom of choice, and the separation of religion and secular state.

 

[Rival]

Than you do not wish to dialogue with Christians nor Muslims. Your extreme antagonistic view that the Baha'i Faith is going to wipe older religions out is aggressively over the top exaggeration, and does not reflect the reality of the Baha'i Faith. It is variations of Christianity and Islam that aggressively propose a Manifest Destiny of domination, and taking over the world,,some by force, and not the Baha'i Faith.

The Baha'i Faith strongly advocates the religious freedom of choice, and the separation of religion and secular state.

I have asked the staff to do something about our argument because we have derailed the thread beyond all recognition. I asked a new thread be created, but I'm not sure what will happen.

 

[shunyadragon]

I have asked the staff to do something about our argument because we have derailed the thread beyond all recognition. I asked a new thread be created, but I'm not sure what will happen.

You derailed the thread with acrid venimous attack on the Baha'i Faith, and I politely ask you to back off, and end it..

 

[Rival]

You made this absurd statement:

I believe the Baha'i Revelation is indeed dragging Islam, Christianity and Judaism into the 21st century.

And I want you to prove it - because as far as I'm aware, Baha'ism has had no impact on these faiths whatsoever. It also suggests there is something wrong with these faiths and they are not fit for our century.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Your venomous hatred of the Baha'i Faith is a clear witness to the problem and a barrier to any possible dialogue.

My view of Hoahide is not dishonest, In fact every source I find on the internet describes Noahide as a variant of Judaism, despite your delusions that it is not. IT is like JW claiming it is not a Christian Church and they are not Christians,

It is always impossible, not just hard, to define what other people see and believe to be true about the religions they follow.

Saying that I would see noahide as a minor variant of Judaism.

I also see the JW as more a variant of Judaism than of Christianity, as they deny the deity of Jesus, and major on the old testament in a way that other Christian denominations do not.

However they are not alone in this as most "Christian" Unitarians are open on this question, and who major on God the father through the teachings of Jesus.

I regret the extremely dogmatic nature and control the Baha'i faith holds over its members, which I feel will prevent it succeeding in its aims.

 

[Rival]

Saying that I would see noahide as a minor variant of Judaism.

If by this you mean 'affiliated with Judaism' I would 100% agree. But to call it a variant, as though it is some kind of sect of Judaism, is not true.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If by this you mean 'affiliated with Judaism' I would 100% agree. But to call it a variant, as though it is some kind of sect of Judaism, is not true.

by variant I Suggest common roots rather than links. I suspect most Noahides have greater affinity with Judaism than Judaism has toward them. Noahides most certainly are not Jews.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Most people haven't even heard of Baha'ism

And how many people have heard of Noahides? Being one certainly doesn't seem to teach manners. I say "seem", since you are the only Noahide I've ever encountered.