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Baha'i faith is not blind faith.

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
This is just an ignorant approach imo. You don't seem to have studied these religions in any meaningful depth. Do you know about the Jewish study halls the males attend? Do you know about Vatican II? Have you heard the debates of the Mediaeval universities? It's not a monolith. Whatever form of non-Bahai religion you have seen is not a good representation.

So far you have only responded with aggressive accusatory accusations, and nothing to backit up, nor have you responded to the content of my posts.

The bottom line is the religions and beliefs that make less 'exclusive belief claims,' and acknowledge the diversity of very human beliefs are open to the 'Independent search for truth.' Judaism, Christianity, and Islam and their divisions do make absolute exclusive truth claims,
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Well :)

If you learned that God existed, wouldn't that sort of change things a bit?

Not really, no. At least for me. I can't speak for others.

Well :)

That would mean that around half to 2/3 the worlds population would be living in sin and not as God instructed. Our whole existence as humans and place in the universe would be radical different than now.

What other people do isn't my business. That's between them and their deities. :)
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
So far you have only responded with aggressive accusatory accusations, and nothing to backit up, nor have you responded to the content of my posts.

The bottom line is the religions and beliefs that make less 'exclusive belief claims,' and acknowledge the diversity of very human beliefs are open to the 'Independent search for truth.' Judaism, Christianity, and Islam and their divisions do make absolute exclusive truth claims,
I gave evidence. This quote from 1 Peter 3:15,

“But in your hearts, revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect…”

This is not blind faith . Peter is exhorting Christians to have an answer for belief, not to just blindly believe it.

Orthodox Jewish males study in Yeshivot and Kolllels day in day out, where they argue and debate with each other. This has been the case since before the common era.

Even Moses realised the Hebrews would not just believe him and God performed miracles to make them believe.

There are many educated religious people who do not believe purely on faith. I don't know any who do.

I don't understand your claim about exclusive religions. You belong to one, after all.

I wasn't attacking you or calling you naive, but from my perspective as a 26 year old Brit, I have never come across what you describe except in the USA. Nearly everyone agrees, including Americans, that what you are describing is a US phenomenon, and a largely Protestant one at that.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
What other people do isn't my business. That's between them and their deities. :)
Well, depending on which God we would be talking about being the real one, that one could throw you in hell for an eternity. So its not really between them and their deity, but between their deity and you. :)
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Well, depending on which God we would be talking about being the real one, that one could throw you in hell for an eternity. So its not really between them and their deity, but between their deity and you. :)
What if there is only one God, seen and understood from different P.O.V by past prophets? So their teaching made the fundation for new religions.
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, depending on which God we would be talking about being the real one, that one could throw you in hell for an eternity. So its not really between them and their deity, but between their deity and you. :)

I didn't think the Baha'i God threw anyone in hell.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
What if there is only one God, seen and understood from different P.O.V by past prophets? So their teaching made the fundation for new religions.
Sure that would be possible, at least for some religions. Im not really sure how that would fit with the Norse, Greek, Roman or Hinduism as they have lots of gods?

Also you still run into the issue of having faith in the prophets being who they say they are. Again, as we talked about earlier, if we are to investigate these things from an objective point of view, is that a reasonable or the best explanation for what we see?

For me, at least, the best explanation seem to be that different cultures had different religions and God(s) and that these cultures borrowed or build upon earlier religions, traditions and superstitions and was a way to explain the world in which people lived. And as time went on, they got more and more complexed.

I personally don't see it as being very likely that all the different religions around the world originated from one single religion just with different prophets, I don't see the evidence for that being very strong.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
I didn't think the Baha'i God threw anyone in hell.
No, he probably doesn't but there are lots of variations for the same God. It depends whos interpretation you listen to. My point being, that if the Bahai version is correct, then the God that throws people in hell can't be true or the same one. So which one is the right one?
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
The principles of the Teachings of Baha’u’llah should be carefully studied, one by one, until they are realized and understood by mind and heart — so will you become strong followers of the light, truly spiritual, heavenly soldiers of God, acquiring and spreading the true civilization…. – Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 22.

Independent Investigation of Truth

The teaching say, a baha'i should investigate deeply until understood by heart and mind, that means there is no blind faith nor a "read the scripture and blindly believe what you read"

Everyone has reasons for their faith; some honest, some not. The honest one's point to their evidences sometimes. The honest one's I see rely on proof that convinces them to have faith.

It's really a disservice to language to use the word faith to mean having confidence towards someone or something without proof nor evidence. I see some non believers twist words to suit their liking. For me faith means to have confidence and assurance based on proof and/or evidence.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Many humans said since when did the bible own a step by step instruction as to why any single billions of form existed?

It hadn't.

It was in fact a study of how a human man theoried for science as just a thinker and a man.

Who had lied. As he sacrificed life on earth...everything was hurt.

Every type of body he changed himself.

Heavens mass to ground mass as sin holes..
Nothing sink hole.

He confessed and said lucky the dusts existed naturally cooled on earth from sun mass conversion. Known as from earths pressured seams.

As he has theoried the type of science himself by choice which is chosen subject topic of just men.... About earths rocks theoried pressures which only space with no heavens had owned naturally by space law.

So said dusts had saved life.... stated as holy dust.

Just a man's new thinking and new stories making the new claim. If dusts hadn't existed naturally I would have destroyed life on earth by pressure change sciences.

So if you begin false preaching you end the summation as a false story too. As dusts are not holy. Life is.

Taught by spiritual conscious natural honest humans. As humans for humans and not for science a chosen subject.

Unlike rich men greedy civilization owner technology lying. Past and present named as the destroyer review.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Arn't you glad that Christianity does not want you to die, simply because you aren't one?
That's something to consider the next time someone tries to tell you that Islam is similar to Christianity.

Not glad nor sad concerning how the many diverse conflicting religious beliefs consider their or my destiny in this life and beyond reason's light.

This is a reflection of your religious beliefs. It is not a question of whether religions are similar or not. Religions including Judaism, Christianity, and Islam reflect the culture and beliefs during the period of their scripture was compiled and make exclusive claims that reject upfront each other and other alternative beliefs.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I gave evidence. This quote from 1 Peter 3:15,

“But in your hearts, revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect…

This is not blind faith. Peter is exhorting Christians to have an answer for belief, not to just blindly believe it.

That is not evidenced it reflects a selective citation. Blind Faith is accepting one's beliefs at the exclusion of the possibility of alternatives or a more inclusive consideration of salvation and the diversity of beliefs. This exemplifies Judaism Christianity and Islam.

Orthodox Jewish males study in Yeshivot and Kolllels day in day out, where they argue and debate with each other. This has been the case since before the common era.

True, but the conclusions are assumed from the beginning, Nothing changes.

Even Moses realised the Hebrews would not just believe him and God performed miracles to make them believe.

There are many educated religious people who do not believe purely on faith. I don't know any who do.

Not comprehendable.

I don't understand your claim about exclusive religions. You belong to one, after all. [/quote[

Exclusive religions like Christianity and Islam believe in salvation only from their belief system.. The Baha'i Faith nor the UU are exclusive religions. that believe their way is the only way

I wasn't attacking you or calling you naive, but from my perspective as a 26 year old Brit, I have never come across what you describe except in the USA. Nearly everyone agrees, including Americans, that what you are describing is a US phenomenon, and a largely Protestant one at that.

At 75 and traveled the world what I described stands as documented beliefs of churches and religions regardless of national boundaries,
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Everyone has reasons for their faith; some honest, some not. The honest one's point to their evidences sometimes. The honest one's I see rely on proof that convinces them to have faith.

It's really a disservice to language to use the word faith to mean having confidence towards someone or something without proof nor evidence. I see some non believers twist words to suit their liking. For me faith means to have confidence and assurance based on proof and/or evidence.
Ok :)
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
That is not evidenced it reflects a selective citation. Blind Faith is accepting one's beliefs at the exclusion of the possibility of alternatives or a more inclusive consideration of salvation and the diversity of beliefs. This exemplifies Judaism Christianity and Islam.



True, but the conclusions are assumed from the beginning, Nothing changes.

Even Moses realised the Hebrews would not just believe him and God performed miracles to make them believe.



Not comprehendable.
I'm ending this here as I can't see this going anywhere. It's not productive imo.
 
Last edited:

rational experiences

Veteran Member
History says with each life human biology DNA in nations separated into tribes and had new leadership.

Diversified DNA meant different thinking emerges.

Hence grand parents tribal elders is our reality as a return to families rights.

We didn't ask the heavens to be changed nor did we give our science brothers exclusive rights of ownership.

He proves he claimed it himself as a theist scientist. A human storyteller.

Therefore you can't ask him to change his mind. He wrote documents based on his authentic thoughts of his time.

We can only reason one man's choice was wrong. Machine science. Earth theisms space theisms sun theisms none of which he owned.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Unfortunately, this is a very naive approach to why people believe in these ancient religions. These religions do not encourage their believers to seriously question the foundation of their beliefs. In many Islamic countries, your life may be at risk for doing so. The cultural anchor of the sense of community and sense of identity is overwhelming any such 'independent 'search for truth.

Example: Fundamentalist Christians (close to the majority in the USA, must accept Genesis as literal and science as false, based on 'faith.'
What do you base that on? Gallup, 5 yearas ago said only 24% of Americans are literalists: Record Few Americans Believe Bible Is Literal Word of God. and that the proportion is declining with time.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I didn't think the Baha'i God threw anyone in hell.
"Soon shall the blasts of His chastisement beat upon you, and the dust of hell enshroud you. .. Ere long, will God, with the Hand of Power, strip them of their possessions, and divest them of the robe of His bounty. To this they themselves shall soon witness."
Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 208

"The gates of Hell have opened wide to receive thee, O thou who hast turned away from thy Lord, the Unconstrained! Repair unto its fire, for it yearneth after thee."
Bahá’u’lláh, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 178

"They that have disbelieved in God and rebelled against His sovereignty are the helpless victims of their corrupt inclinations and desires. These shall return to their abode in the fire of hell: wretched is the abode of the deniers!"
Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 284

"Likewise apprehend thou the nature of hell-fire and be of them that truly believe."
Baha'u'llah, Suriy-i-Vafa

".. if thou remainest, at the moment of death, a disbeliever in the signs of thy Lord thou shalt surely enter the gates of hell, .."
The Báb, Selections from the Writings of the Báb, p. 19

These quotes indicate that Bahais have a normal hell with hell-fire.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
What do you base that on? Gallup, 5 yearas ago said only 24% of Americans are literalists: Record Few Americans Believe Bible Is Literal Word of God. and that the proportion is declining with time.

I question what you base your assertion on?!?!!?

Incomplete. The above pol gives better figures:

40% of Americans Believe in Creationism

. . . and Evolution Is Finally Winning Out Over Creationism, Especially Among the Young

Yes, there is hope as more younger people believe the science, but at present, the Baby Boomers are in control.

Regardless of the polls the Bible literally describes a literal Genesis Creationism in the NT, and this ancient view remains as long as people believe.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I question what you base your assertion on?!?!!?

Incomplete. The above pol gives better figures:

40% of Americans Believe in Creationism

. . . and Evolution Is Finally Winning Out Over Creationism, Especially Among the Young

Yes, there is hope as more younger people believe the science, but at present, the Baby Boomers are in control.
I've given you my source, so there is no question about what I base it on.

But curiously it seems at odds with the one you quote, even though both were carried out by the same polling organisation.

I suspect the explanation is that the questions were different in the two cases. My source asked about biblical literalism (which was the point under discussion in the thread), whereas yours asked about something a bit different, viz. whether Man evolved or was created by God in his present form.

What one might infer from the difference, I suppose, is that there are plenty of people who think Man was created by God in his present form, who nonetheless do not maintain that the whole of the bible must be read literally.
 
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