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Baha'i faith is not blind faith.

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
With all due respect, why would anyone want to be close to a God that designed a world of sorrow, grief and trials that we had to live in till we die? Abdu'l-Baha tries to side-skirt that and I don't like that.

What you describe are some of the attributes of The reality of our physical existence. The reality of our human journey through many worlds is the spiritual journey of the soul that has to a degree the will to make choice to reduce suffering, sorrow, and grief. The Vedic concept of Karma is a no better an explanation

I believe it is more a paradox that God would create a perfect world without suffering and death for Adam and Ev, and then blame Adam and Eve for screwing things up and causing all the suffering and death in human history.

I will acknowledge the alternatives that God may not exist and our physical existence with the suffering and death just as it is naturally with good and bad consequences of our existence nothing more.

I do believe that the history of humanity has both a progressive evolving spiritual as well our physical existence. Regardless of any alternative existence or 'Source', I do not see suffering and death as problems, because it is simply the reality of the journey.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Unfortunatly many people seem to think all religions are blindly followed without asking questions, and in discussion, i seen this been the case when some people look at Baha'i faith too
Not all religionists blindly follow dogma. many are just "cultural" religionists. They adopt the label of the faith they we're raised in, but don't strictly adhere to doctrine and certainly aren't online apologists.
However, most online apologists seem to blindly follow. Even the facade of "enquiry" usually amounts to something along the lines of "The answer is in scripture somewhere, because it is the word of god" - which is basically the same
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
This is not the kind I'm familiar with. Especially in Christianity, as I'm reminded of the passage in the New Testament to always be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within you etc.
I'm not familiar with these Christians, Muslims, Jews, Bahais, etc that disagree with or reject gods word.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
A Baha'i must always investigate even in to science to be able slowly but surely so that their understanding getting closer and closer to the teaching.
Question begging.
You assume that "investigation" with bring a person towards faith, not away from it.

If a person say as an example. But Baha'u'llah say you must believe this, so you must only believe that, then they have not investigated the other P.O.V that is within the teaching.
You are assuming that people whose investigations lead them to a different conclusion to yours are necessarily wrong.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
TI have no need for explanation other than from those who follow Baha'i when it comes to Baha'i faith. Outsiders who isn't Bahai's are not who i seek advice from now.
Seems pretty close-minded and insular. If you only listen to the people selling the product, you aren't getting the full story.
Of course, I understand that it makes your life easier, and who doesn't like an easy life?
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
That does not change the explanation given?

Hell is not a literal place, neither is fire a literal fire, they are a state of being.

Regards Tony
What is the point of a hell that no one will inhabit?
I guess it's just a threat to those who do believe, against disbelieving, because only while they still believe, does the concept of hell work.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
That is a good definition of blind faith.:) However, some believers have a 'reason' for their faith so it is not blind.
"Blind faith" does not mean that the person does not claim to have a reason for their belief. It means that they do not question their belief.
You claim that whatever Bahaullah says must be true and cannot be questioned - because it is the infallible word of god. Your "reason" does not make your faith and less "blind".

You also insist that god exists, despite admitting that god might not exist - which gives us an indication of how rational your "reasoning" is.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Makes sense to me, but of course I am a Baha'i. ;)
Terrible argument.
If that was the case, then the whole concept of "god's word" is meaningless as the world's religions over history vary so much.
Basically it implies that god doesn't really care what we do or how we worship him.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Who created the new definition of hell? Abdul Baha? Shoghi?
Hell with hell-fire as defined by Bahaollah and Bab seem to be different (kindly refer to my post with their quotes).
Good observation. They do seem to be different.
Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi took it upon themselves to interpret what Baha'u'llah wrote but I believe they also added onto it as well as giving it their own spin. I'd say that Baha'u'llah did not mince words but they were more lenient.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
No, Baha'is do not have a hell with hell-fire. Hell is defined as a state of the soul that is distant from God and heaven is nearness to God.
I'm not sure where I will end up but I have lots of work to do if I am going to make it to heaven. :eek:
What is the point of a hell that does not exist for disbelievers and believers won't go to?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
What you describe are some of the attributes of The reality of our physical existence. The reality of our human journey through many worlds is the spiritual journey of the soul that has to a degree the will to make choice to reduce suffering, sorrow, and grief.
To a degree humans have the will to make choices that reduce suffering, sorrow, and grief, but all humans have different capacities in that regard.
I believe it is more a paradox that God would create a perfect world without suffering and death for Adam and Ev, and then blame Adam and Eve for screwing things up and causing all the suffering and death in human history.
Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden makes absolutely no logical sense to be. I am not asking for a perfect world, just one will less suffering and suffering that is more equally distributed. That would be just.
I will acknowledge the alternatives that God may not exist and our physical existence with the suffering and death just as it is naturally with good and bad consequences of our existence nothing more.
That makes more sense than that there is a loving God.
I do believe that the history of humanity has both a progressive evolving spiritual as well our physical existence. Regardless of any alternative existence or 'Source', I do not see suffering and death as problems, because it is simply the reality of the journey.
A reality that might include a God, but not a loving God, Imo.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
What is the point of a hell that does not exist for disbelievers and believers won't go to?
Hell does exist but not as geographical location... Hell is state of the soul that is distant from God, not distant geographically, but distant in the heart. Iows, we don't love God.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
With all due respect, why would anyone want to be close to a God that designed a world of sorrow, grief and trials that we had to live in till we die?
Because the world is just that way. Bad **** happens to good people, and good things happen for bad people. The concept of a loving god is incoherent in light of the evidence, so religions have to come up with a way to reconcile the problem.

Abdu'l-Baha tries to side-skirt that and I don't like that.
How can you have a problem with anything he says. You claim he is infallibly relaying the perfect word of a loving god. If you think any part of that claim is not true, the whole house of cards collapses.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
No, that is not blind adherence, we adhere out of choice with our eyes wide open.
That passage means that whatever God revels is the very truth, even if it sounds nonsensical to us.
Dear god! Can you even hear yourself?

"I do not blindly follow dogma. I just accept whatever Bahullah says is god's law, even if it seems nonsensical"

:tearsofjoy:
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So god's message, laws, morals, etc are subjective.
That is not what I said. God's message changes over time because the message is for humans and humans and the world they live in changes over time. God's Laws change over time in order to accommodate the times we live in.

"The second part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence, theft and injuries—this part of the Law of God, which refers to material things, is modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the necessities of the times.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 47-48
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
No, that is not what Baha'u'llah said,
No, that is what Bahaullah said. Read it again...

"It is incumbent upon everyone to firmly adhere to God’s straight Path. Were He to pronounce the right to be the left or the south to be the north, He speaketh the truth and there is no doubt of it."

that is what you think he meant according to something you read.
Ironically, it is you who is imposing an unconnected meaning determined by your existing agenda rather than the actual words Bahaullah used.
 
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