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Featured Baha'i faith is not blind faith.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Seeker of White Light, Jul 3, 2022.

  1. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
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    I'm afraid that is the same thing. You are defining something by an assumption of your conclusion and by negatives.

    Looks like an average of about 400 milliseconds. Far from instantaneous.
    Conscious intention and human action: Review of the rise and fall of the readiness potential and Libet’s clock
    The brain takes time to process intent and the impulse from then travel time to the appropriate muscles.
    IIRC, our thoughts are generated at the chemical level via the change in action potential of sodium and potassium ions across the synaptic gap. Or millions of synaptic gaps. And those chemical interactions are standard interactions. How does something non-material interact with those ions, and what exactly does it change about the physical substrate of the brain?

    Out of line? No. You have been nothing but pleasant and interesting.
     
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  2. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Lol. So who said that your belief is exactly the same? This is the definition of a strawman.
     
  3. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    But Bahais don't believe Imams were like Pops, as you said here:

     
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  4. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Does this imply that thought content is in those ions? Are they locating thoughts? What entity/identity is having those thoughts?

    Either the brain emits consciousness, transmits consciousness, or permits consciousness. Psychiatrist Ian McGhilchrist states this.

    How do they know when a thought originates? To when the thought executes an action? How precise is that measure?

    So there is an unconscious to conscious response time. The will seems to generate movement by feeling and familiarity as well as thought commands as becomes conscious to do so.

    From unconscious storage of memories to becoming conscious enough to will choice an action from unconscious it seems there is a subliminal conscious states as well as explicit conscious states.

    Thinking about thinking I often react subconsciously with movements and familiarity.

    Things I've mastered happen seemingly faster and automatically with very little need of conscientious thought. I don't have to make conscientious choices in this mode. When I have explicit consciousness I'm much more deliberate and I go slower; it's more focused.

    Non material substance could be the control that initiates the thoughts in the first place. How one would rule that in or out is a matter of exact, precise measurement. Control is first, thought comes second, action comes third.

    I cannot model a physical representation of thought location and content. What or whom is having the thought?

    I think this is not something easily grasped.
     
    #104 osgart, Jul 5, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Haha. That was an explanation to someone else, not to a Bahai. This is the second strawman. Why is that?

    Ill tell you what. You are just responding for the sake of debating someone somehow. Let me make it clear so that you can try not to keep doing this.

    Everything fundamentally believed by Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hindu's, etc etc that the Bahai's claim were all of the same source and they were all manifestations of God etc etc etc, are just claims but you don't believe the same and in fact are directly opposing them.

    So now you can't go picking small things that you differ from all of these faiths and keep making statements like "but we are a tad different here".

    Clear? Let me say this again. In fundamental beliefs, the Bahai faith is absolutely different from all of these faiths.

    ).
     
  6. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    No reliable ' . . .in fact' here. Only an egocentric view where my religion is right, and others appear different and wrong.

    These are very biased assumptions from someone who believes it is justified to persecute condemn, , and execute, Baha'is in Islamic countries.

    Yes the Baha'is believe that all of humanity received Revelation from God throughout human history. Non our left alone and separate from God, That is a human choice. To disagree and believe in the unity of religions is not against anyone. Yes, the different religions like Islam each believe they are the only true religion including the different sects of Islam each believes they are the only way. There are many contradictions here concerning conflicting religious claims from the fallible human perspective, What Criteria outside these conflicting often combative beliefs to judge which one is the true one, It is obvious that the religions have become exclusive and indeed combative (not religions of peace) over time attached to one culture and often a prisoner of the language and narrow worldview of the original ancient scripture

    Actually, from the outside more objective perspective if there is not a universal God that reveals his message to humanity all religions are likely wrong. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam could hardly claim to be universal from their narrow cultural and tribal perspective rooted in ancient history rejecting all others who believe differently..
     
    #106 shunyadragon, Jul 5, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
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  7. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    That is confirmation bias, pot hoc ergo propter hoc, wishful thinking, etc. It is not "proof" or "evidence".

    How about you briefly explain the argument rather than expecting me to watch a video?

    Oh dear.
    I guess when we are allowed to redefine words to suit our own purpose, anything is possible.
    Your definition of bogus is bogus. ;)
     
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  8. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    That analogy only makes sense if you accept there is a dark room in the first place. If your reality consists only of sunlit rooms and the great outdoors, the threat of a dark room is meaningless.

    People who believe in god will not choose hell.
    For people who do not believe in god, hell does not exist so it is not a choice.
    Your concept of hell as a punishment for not believing in god is utterly incoherent.
     
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  9. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    So you admit that Bahais (once they have accepted Bahaism) are required to blindly follow dogma.
     
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  10. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    Their god has stated that he wants his followers to achieve dominion of his word, including by using violence and threats.

    Faith and religion can be quite well explained. We know why people are attracted to god claims. We also know that these claims are often demonstrable nonsense.
     
  11. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    One could claim that you should investigate, not follow blindly etc etc, but the reality could be different. This is just an article, not doctrine. And you should read the books written by Abdul Baha. In the quotes in the article you shared in some areas he says to investigate his own teachings, and in some areas he tells you to investigate, but the Bahai's believe some things with no investigations whatsoever.

    I think you should do a little more research. Actually read their books, their quotes from the Qur'an, Bible, and other stuff like the Mahdhi, quotes from ahadith, and verify the viability of the faith claims on these things. I have never found a single Bahai in this forum who has investigated them openly. Their faith has been already built, and the investigation is post hoc ergo propter hoc. It's like painting a bulls eye around the already planted arrow or bullet.

    The reason I say this or at least one of the reasons is that their claims of the Bible, Buddhist scripture and the Qur'an are largely just false. They have not read them and they don't know what the books actually say, but a lot of times they claim to have "studied" them all. When a question is asked, it will be skirted around rather than answering. That means there has been no investigation. If you want, I can give you many examples and you can address them with "investigation" or ask a Bahai to respond with investigation. The Bahai's are nice people no doubt. That does not mean people could disagree. And there is no point making things up to appease people. It's a bad choice to make in my personal opinion.

    Maybe your idea is something like a perennial philosophy. Maybe that's how your empathy works. It's all good for you individually, but does not apply to everyone everywhere. Hope you understand.

    Good topic.
     
  12. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Be who ever you want

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    Thank you for your reply @firedragon but I have no need for explanation other than from those who follow Baha'i when it comes to Baha'i faith. Outsiders who isn't Bahai's are not who i seek advice from now.
     
  13. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    You can complain to the Admins that Non-Bahai's are responding to your post.

    Cheers.
     
  14. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Be who ever you want

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    No need, I have found other places to discuss with Baha'is;)
     
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  15. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Congrats. Cheers.
     
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  16. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    I am unclear to what you were offering, but it made no sense in the Baha'i context.

    The Bab had 24 Letters of the Living.

    Regards Tony
     
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  17. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    I do not know what Ajjaheemi means.

    Regards Tony
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Oh my God. Tony. The Bab himself directly spoke of the Imama.
     
  19. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    It means the fires in hell.
     
  20. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    I have No idea what you are trying to say.

    Regards Tony
     
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