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Featured Baha'i faith is not blind faith.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Seeker of White Light, Jul 3, 2022.

  1. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Your history of the Modus Operandi of selective citations to justify a biased agenda without knowledge of the subject does not provide a coherent argument. In fact, it reflects badly on you as usual in the past in our dialogues.

    Random selective Google searches are not a competent way of constructive dialogue.

    Hell on earth is a reality we live with described in your references,

    Nonetheless . .

    Baháʼí Faith on life after death - Wikipedia..

    Heaven is a soul being close to God, not a place but a condition, as it undergoes an eternal spiritual evolution.[4] Anyone who learns and applies virtues and guidance of God "goes to" heaven. Hell is similarly being far from God, not a place, but of failing to understand and apply virtues and guidance from God. Progress from even the worst condition is possible even in the next world but not until the individual fundamentally overcomes rejecting Godly virtues. Labels we call ourselves by and theologies we claim to adhere to are not as important as the reality of spiritual virtues like courage, justice, love, understanding, etc., actually expressed by choice in our lives.[4][5] Development of the spiritual life reaches a milestone whether in this life or the next in developing the "spirit of faith"[1] a gift of the Holy Spirit, which then continues to grow in the individual's soul. But if our ability to express Godly virtues is conditional so is our condition in the afterlife - there is a spectrum of achievement so a purgatory-like environment is possible for those who have not well embraced Godly virtues and those that have not largely rejected them. Indeed, the next world's life is sometimes delineated in stages.[6][7] Baháʼís believe a significant purpose of revelation is to guide the spiritual development of the individual and that accepting the prophet of God is important as a significant chance at advancing the conditional achievement of discovering the virtues themselves and expressing them.[4] If one succeeds in achieving these to a superlative degree then that person will be of benefit to all mankind from the afterlife[4] while those who are far from God have no power to affect the living any more.[1][8][9] Indeed, evil is not viewed as a power in the next world - people who are evil are described as "atrophied" and "enfeebled"[10] and that accounts of "possession" are about people who have yielded to their own darker passions and baser nature.[9]
     
    #41 shunyadragon, Jul 4, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
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  2. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    . . .and I responded. Your biased selective reference did not reflect the whole history and details of the polls.

    This response failed to address my previous post and references.
     
  3. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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  4. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Veteran Member
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    They do, they just believe it will happen at some future apocalyptic event instead of now. They used to use the same argument Islam did for killing non-believers. But it wasn't the wisdom of Christianity which made them stop, it was the prudence of fighting against theocratic rule and protecting a secular governance.
     
  5. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Veteran Member
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    For many people in the US, this isn't a quote to encourage education and acceptance for a myriad beliefs, but instructions on how to best proselytize and make new converts.

    For every quote about learning and research, there's 10 lambasting non-believers as fools, to not associate meaningfully with them, to not be a part of their world.

    And there are many Christians who take that to heart in a way you probably aren't used to seeing but doesn't change our very real experience of trauma from religious people.
     
  6. Rival

    Rival Divine Adoratrice of Amun
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    I've never seen that verse interpreted that way. That's odd.
     
  7. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Veteran Member
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    *points to self, raised in JW.*
     
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  8. Rival

    Rival Divine Adoratrice of Amun
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    It does seem very fundie, indeed. I was nominally Anglican.
     
  9. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Veteran Member
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    It is. And don't get me wrong, it's not an excuse to treat Christians as a monolith. But there has to be a balance between non-believers understanding Christians don't need to take the Bible literally to be Christians and believers understanding that our lived experience of fundamentalist overreach still very much effects our lives.
     
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  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Wrong!!! The reference is specific and accurate concerning the Baha'i view of Heaven and Hell. Your selective bias is glaringly apparent.

    Hell nor Heaven are not literal places. The references provided by you describe the attributes of Heaven and Hell, no problem.

    There are reference in the Baha'i writings of journey's through many spiritual worlds beyond ours. The spiritual attributes acquired in this world guide us in the journey through apiritual worlds beyond our physical world.

    As our present state on earth what you describe is an excellent description of the Hell here on earth,

    Heaven and Hell: A Baha'i Perspective

    ‘Where is Paradise, and where is Hell?’… The one is reunion with Me; the other thine own self. –
    Baha’u’llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 132.

    All Will Meet God… Eventually

    The Baha’i teachings reassure everyone that we all will progress toward God in the next life:

    Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty. – Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, pp. 155-156.

    What Will We Do In Heaven?

    We will all have useful service to perform in the next existence:

    Those who have passed on through death, have a sphere of their own. It is not removed from ours; their work… is ours; but it is sanctified from what we call “time and place.” – Abdu’l-Baha in London, p. 96.

    What About Meeting Those We Knew?

    The Baha’i teachings say we will “find all the friends of God, both those of the former and recent times, present in the heavenly assemblage.” In the near-death experience we find many accounts of those who pass over, meeting relatives and other loved ones on the other side. Abdu’l-Baha assures us that we can welcome death:

    At first it is very difficult to welcome death, but after attaining its new condition the soul is grateful, for it has been released from the bondage of the limited to enjoy the liberties of the unlimited. It has been freed from a world of sorrow, grief and trials to live in a world of unending bliss and joy. The phenomenal and physical have been abandoned in order that it may attain the opportunities of the ideal and spiritual. – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 48.
     
    #50 shunyadragon, Jul 4, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
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  11. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    It wasn't a biased reference. It was a recent Gallup poll. Gallup is a respected polling organisation and I see you also relied on it for a reference in response. So what's with this "bias" stuff?

    I was responding to your first post in this thread. Your subsequent posts included another Gallup poll and a magazine article that didn't seem to address the same question, so I have not taken it into account.

    I don't understand your apparent hostility - unless it's something to do with you being Baha'i with a point to prove. I'm just interested in getting to what proportion of US Christians are truly biblical literalists and what the trend is.
     
    #51 exchemist, Jul 4, 2022
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  12. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
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    ***Thread Moved to General Religious Debates***
     
  13. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Then JG, you don't know anything about the Bahai theology.
     
  14. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Unknown Member
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    No, I don't. I'm open to correction.

    Though, I picked up the impression I had from other Baha'is here, who hint that hell is simply separation from God.
     
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  15. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    JG. Some might take this in a demeaning manner, but don't understand the Bahai theology from the Bahai's in this forum. Initial queries are fine, but nothing deeper.

    Anyway, the most basic Bahai theology is that the entire Bible, the Qur'an, and some of the Bahai writings were all inspired by God. They also have a slinging faith that there were 12 imam's or spiritual leaders like the Pope who spoke "For God".

    Thus, if there is a heaven and hell concept in the Bible or the Qur'an, the Bahai faith by default believes in them. Also, Bahaullah's own writing speaks of hell. Also mind you, it directly repeats "ajjahama" which means "The fires in hell".

    I am not demeaning their faith. Just stating facts about the Bahai theology.

    Peace.
     
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  16. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    I trump your Abdulbaha quote with a conflicting one from Bahaullah himself...
    "It is incumbent upon everyone to firmly adhere to God’s straight Path. Were He to pronounce the right to be the left or the south to be the north, He speaketh the truth and there is no doubt of it."
    This clearly prescribes blind adherence to dogma, even if it seems nonsensical.

    I guess you're back to cherry picking. Which one do you prefer?
     
  17. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    Not all followers of all religions. That is just a shabby straw man.
    However, some certainly do, and there is scripture to support their behaviour (see above).
     
  18. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    But Bahaullah himself said that you must follow god's pronouncements, even if they make no sense and contradict what is existing, factual knowledge, and you must have no doubt.
    That is the definition of "blind faith".
     
  19. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    So what's the benefit of worshiping it and following its rules (which still include some of the usual stuff like homophobia)?
     
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  20. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    Such as?

    Tell that to the OED!

    "Faith: Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof."
     
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