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Baha'i belief in Jesus?

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
I asked this question in another thread, but to avoid dragging that thread off topic, I'll repeat it here:

I'm curious ... is Baha'i it's own religion? or a Christian sect? or a compilation of people of various beliefs (kinda like UU)?

One of the Baha'i members mentioned that a 'requirement' of the Baha'i religion is a belief in Jesus. What do the Baha'i believe about Jesus? Do I understand correctly that though they believe Jesus exists (existed?), they do not believe He is the Savior. Do they believe He is the Son of God?

Thanks :)
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Snowbear said:
I'm curious ... is Baha'i it's own religion?
Yes, it is. It is a religion in the Abrahamic tradition
or a Christian sect?
No, it is not considered as such anymore than Muslims or Christians are considered Jewish sects.
or a compilation of people of various beliefs (kinda like UU)?
No, it is not like UU, and that is not what UU is anyway but that's not what this thread is about.

I'll leave the rest for the Baha'i members to explain.
 

9harmony

Member
Hi snowbear,

The Baha'i Faith is the newest of the worlds religions. It has it's roots in Islam, the same way that Christianity has it's roots in Judaism.

One of the fundamental principles of the Faith is the acceptance of the principle of progressive revelation. As a Baha'i, I embrace all of the prophets as different chapters in the one unfolding religion of God.

We believe that Jesus brought a message from God appropriate to the age and society in which He appeared. The same for Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Mohammed, The Bab, and Baha'u'llah, among others. The differences are not a result of their knowledge, but rather our capacity to understand the lesson at the time.

We believe in the Bible, but we may differ in what the understandings are, based on interpretations and semantics.

I'm short on time right now. so hopefully others will stop by and elaborate further.

Have a wonderful day!

Thanks for asking. :)

-Amy
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Hi!

Please note that there's a "Baha'i Faith" area under the Abrahamic Religions group where you can ask specific questions and get answers from Baha'is! . . .

Best,

Bruce
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
I think this passage from Baha'i Writings might be a good starting point:

"As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its Divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the Divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá'u'lláh as the 'Spirit of God', is proclaimed as the One Who 'appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost', and is even extolled as the 491 'Essence of the Spirit'. His mother is described as 'that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous countenance', and the station of her Son eulogized as a 'station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,' whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused 'the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance of flow out of his mouth.'"

(Shoghi Effendi: The Promised Day is Come, pp. 113-114)
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
BruceDLimber said:
Please note that there's a "Baha'i Faith" area under the Abrahamic Religions group where you can ask specific questions and get answers from Baha'is! . . .
I know. But I asked it here because of the comparative nature of my question.

Besides, non-Baha'is may have an interesting perspective as well (like Maize did) :D
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
From my understanding and from what i have been told by the Baha'i members in here about Jesus is that, they believe the soul of Jesus must come always every thousand years but the body might be different. For example, the last time Jesus was on earth (according to Baha'i faith) was when his spirit was inside Baha`u'llah's body who is the brother or cousin of the "Bab", the founder of Baha'i faith after he saw the the face of Huseen "sort of a vision" (the son of Ali bin abi talib and his father Ali was one of the Muslims Khalifs whom the Shi'a took him and his sons and daughters after him as an essential successors for prophet Mohammed as the Shi'a Muslims believe so and it's a crucial part in their belief).

The founder of Baha'i faith was a Shi'a Muslims then he claimed that vision and he found many people and organizations supporting his ideas whether they believe in his beliefs or not for several reasons.

Ohh sorry, i guess this is already off-topic.

I hope that i was helpfull. For more information you can visit this link and it's a thread about the same thing almost and it was in the Baha'i belief forum.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31942
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
The Truth said:
From my understanding and from what i have been told by the Baha'i members in here about Jesus is that, they believe the soul of Jesus must come always every thousand years but the body might be different.

Pretty much. I wouldn't take the thousand years too exactly, though. It more like a rough estimate. We know it wasn't 1000 years until Muhammad (pbuh) came, then it was another 1260 years until the Bab appeared.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
So do I understand correctly that you believe that Jesus, Muhammed, Bab, etc... are all prophets, or messengers, of God? Or is it more that they are divine Sons of God, as the Christians believe Jesus is?
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Snowbear said:
So do I understand correctly that you believe that Jesus, Muhammed, Bab, etc... are all prophets, or messengers, of God? Or is it more that they are divine Sons of God, as the Christians believe Jesus is?

It's not an either/or thing for us. They're both.

Yes to the first: They are all Messengers.

As to the second questions and especially regarding Christ: His title was "Son of God" and he had every right to bear it.

As the writings say: "The Sonship and Divinity of Christ are fearlessly asserted."

Please note it isn't minimally or sort of asserted, but "fearlessly" asserted. That doesn't exactly leave a lot of wiggle room, eh?

I sometimes find myself in the position of hearing the occasional Christian question the Divinity of Christ or the reliability of the Bible or other long-held Christian beliefs.

Imagine how really...uh....*weird* that makes me feel, given what I and other Baha'is believe about Christ. :eek:
 

kai

ragamuffin
are then jesus mohammed and the bab the same (spirit , essence, soul,) that returns to update the message
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
kai said:
are then jesus mohammed and the bab the same (spirit , essence, soul,) that returns to update the message
I know this passage I'll post here is long, but I'd rather people read it all in context and figure out what it means themselves than depend on my possibly flawed understanding of it.

Baha'is for shorthand refer to this concept of the "dual station" of Manifestations (or Messengers, or Prophets).

EDIT: There are a LOT of references to subjects in Islam in this passage, but don't worry about that. You can get the idea of what Baha'u'llah's talking about whether you understand the quotes and references or not.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
XXII. The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness.

These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: "No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers." For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory. Thus hath Muhammad, the Point of the Qur'án, revealed: "I am all the Prophets." Likewise, He saith: "I am the first Adam, Noah, Moses, and Jesus." Similar statements have been made by Imam Ali. Sayings such as these, which indicate the essential unity of those Exponents of Oneness, have also emanated from the Channels of God's immortal utterance, and the Treasuries of the gems of Divine knowledge, and have been recorded in the Scriptures. These Countenances are the recipients of the Divine Command, and the Day Springs of His Revelation. This Revelation is exalted above the veils of plurality and the exigencies of number. Thus He saith: "Our Cause is but One." Inasmuch as the Cause is one and the same, the Exponents thereof also must needs be one and the same. Likewise, the Imams of the Muhammadan Faith, those lamps of certitude, have said: "Muhammad is our first, Muhammad is our last, Muhammad our all."

It is clear and evident to thee that all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire. If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith. Such is the unity of those Essences of Being, those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendor! Wherefore, should one of these Manifestations of Holiness proclaim saying: "I am the return of all the Prophets," He, verily, speaketh the truth. In like manner, in every subsequent Revelation, the return of the former Revelation is a fact, the truth of which is firmly established....

The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation. Even as He saith: "Some of the Apostles We have caused to excel the others. To some God hath spoken, some He hath raised and exalted. And to Jesus, Son of Mary, We gave manifest signs, and We strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit."

It is because of this difference in their station and mission that the words and utterances flowing from these Well Springs of Divine knowledge appear to diverge and differ. Otherwise, in the eyes of them that are initiated into the mysteries of Divine wisdom, all their utterances are, in reality, but the expressions of one Truth. As most of the people have failed to appreciate those stations to which We have referred, they, therefore, feel perplexed and dismayed at the varying utterances pronounced by Manifestations that are essentially one and the same.

It hath ever been evident that all these divergencies of utterance are attributable to differences of station. Thus, viewed from the standpoint of their oneness and sublime detachment, the attributes of Godhead, Divinity, Supreme Singleness, and Inmost Essence, have been, and are applicable to those Essences of Being, inasmuch as they all abide on the throne of Divine Revelation, and are established upon the seat of Divine Concealment. Through their appearance the Revelation of God is made manifest, and by their countenance the Beauty of God is revealed. Thus it is that the accents of God Himself have been heard uttered by these Manifestations of the Divine Being.

Viewed in the light of their second station -- the station of distinction, differentiation, temporal limitations, characteristics and standards -- they manifest absolute servitude, utter destitution, and complete self-effacement. Even as He saith: "I am the servant of God. I am but a man like you."...

Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: "I am God," He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His names and His attributes, are made manifest in the world. Thus, He hath revealed: "Those shafts were God's, not Thine." And also He saith: "In truth, they who plighted fealty unto Thee, really plighted that fealty unto God." And were any of them to voice the utterance, "I am the Messenger of God," He, also, speaketh the truth, the indubitable truth. Even as He saith: "Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but He is the Messenger of God." Viewed in this light, they are all but Messengers of that ideal King, that unchangeable Essence. And were they all to proclaim, "I am the Seal of the Prophets," they, verily, utter but the truth, beyond the faintest shadow of doubt. For they are all but one person, one soul, one spirit, one being, one revelation. They are all the manifestation of the "Beginning" and the "End," the "First" and the "Last," the "Seen" and the "Hidden" -- all of which pertain to Him Who is the Innermost Spirit of Spirits and Eternal Essence of Essences. And were they to say, "We are the Servants of God," this also is a manifest and indisputable fact. For they have been 55 made manifest in the uttermost state of servitude, a servitude the like of which no man can possibly attain. Thus in moments in which these Essences of Being were deep immersed beneath the oceans of ancient and everlasting holiness, or when they soared to the loftiest summits of Divine mysteries, they claimed their utterances to be the Voice of Divinity, the Call of God Himself.

Were the eye of discernment to be opened, it would recognize that in this very state, they have considered themselves utterly effaced and non-existent in the face of Him Who is the All-Pervading, the Incorruptible. Methinks, they have regarded themselves as utter nothingness, and deemed their mention in that Court an act of blasphemy. For the slightest whispering of self within such a Court is an evidence of self-assertion and independent existence. In the eyes of them that have attained unto that Court, such a suggestion is itself a grievous transgression. How much more grievous would it be, were aught else to be mentioned in that Presence, were man's heart, his tongue, his mind, or his soul, to be busied with any one but the Well-Beloved, were his eyes to behold any countenance other than His beauty, were his ear to be inclined to any melody but His Voice, and were his feet to tread any way but His way....

By virtue of this station they have claimed for themselves the Voice of Divinity and the like, whilst by virtue of their station of Messengership, they have declared themselves the Messengers of God. In every instance they have voiced an utterance that would conform to the requirements of the occasion, and have ascribed all these declarations to Themselves, declarations ranging from the realm of Divine Revelation to the realm of creation, and from the domain of Divinity even unto the domain of earthly existence. Thus it is that whatsoever be their utterance, whether it pertain to the realm of Divinity, Lordship, Prophethood, Messengership, Guardianship, Apostleship, or Servitude, all is true, beyond the shadow of a doubt. Therefore these sayings which We have quoted in support of Our argument must be attentively considered, that the divergent utterances of the Manifestations of the Unseen and Day Springs of Holiness may cease to agitate the soul and perplex the mind.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 50)
 
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Snowbear

Nita Okhata
Soooo... (in a VERY simplified summation to see if I get it ;)) all the prophets are considered divine in the sense Jesus is?? Each being sent as a Messenger to renew the Word of God to the people?

Thanks for that passage, Booko.
And frubals (Hey - I'm up to giving 77 now!) for your continued patience in clarifying my understanding :highfive:
 

kai

ragamuffin
thanks booko, very interesting you know i had no knowledge of the bahais untill i came to RF
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Snowbear said:
Soooo... (in a VERY simplified summation to see if I get it ;)) all the prophets are considered divine in the sense Jesus is?? Each being sent as a Messenger to renew the Word of God to the people?

By George, I think you've got it! :yes:

Thanks for that passage, Booko.
And frubals (Hey - I'm up to giving 77 now!) for your continued patience in clarifying my understanding :highfive:

Frubals back for asking such interesting questions. :)
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
kai said:
thanks booko, very interesting you know i had no knowledge of the bahais untill i came to RF

Thanks for asking, kai. I'm sure there are Baha'is in your area as well. But as proselytizing and asking for money from non-Baha'is is forbidden, well, maybe that makes us a little quieter. :p
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
The Truth said:
Baha`u'llah's ... who is the brother or cousin of the "Bab ...

Hi!

This is inaccurate save in a metaphoric sense:

We Baha'is posit no recent blood connection between Baha'u'llah and the Bab: each is descended from a differing wife wives of Abraham.

(The Bab from Hagar; Baha'u'llah from both Sarah and Keturah.)

Best,

Bruce
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Kai and Snowbear, hi!

Snowbear said:
Soooo... (in a VERY simplified summation to see if I get it ;)) all the prophets are considered divine in the sense Jesus is??

Not "all" prophets: only the major Divine Messengers Whom God sends every 500-1,000 years to renew religion by founding a new stage in the overall series of steps in the one faith, the Faith of God!

For example, Isaiah and Micah are simply prophets, NOT Divine Messengers.

In contrast Moses, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, and Baha'u'llah (Founder of the Baha'i Faith), among others, ARE Divine Messengers!

One of the simplest ways to recognize a Divine Messenger is the fact that He founds a new religion, where prophets are part of an existing religiion such as Judaism.

Best! :)

Bruce
 
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