Baha'i and Messengers

[Trailblazer]

I do understand that. I have been saying that for years.

And guess what....

You, Trailblazer are a people.

That's right, and I never claimed that I determine what God's nature is.

 

[ppp]

Now you are deflecting, a famous atheist tactic...

And there's the kneejerk. Thanks for the affirmation.

 

[ppp]

That's right, and I never claimed that I determine what God's nature is.

Cool. Well, since all you have in evidence is people, there you go. No god's nature claims to be taken seriously.

Cool Cool cool cool.

 

[lukethethird]

Do you understand that what people believe about God (or gods) does not determine what God's nature is?
I believe that some of the religions accurately depict God's nature which means that the other religions are falsely representing God's nature.

So there are false Gods and real Gods out there, I see.

 

[Trailblazer]

And there's the kneejerk. Thanks for the affirmation.

And there is another deflection instead of an answer to what I asked....
That is what atheists do when they cannot answer what I ask without looking foolish.... This is not my first rodeo, I have been posting almost exclusively to atheists for about seven years on various forums so I know the drill.

 

[Trailblazer]

Cool. Well, since all you have in evidence is people, there you go. No god's nature claims to be taken seriously.

Cool Cool cool cool.

No, what I have in evidence is a Messenger of God, who is more than just a human, but since nobody takes Him seriously..........

 

[ppp]

No, what I have in evidence is a Messenger of God, who is more than just a human, but since nobody takes Him seriously..........

So says a human

 

[Trailblazer]

So there are false Gods and real Gods out there, I see.

No, there is one true God and many misconceptions about that God that are false.

 

[Trailblazer]

So says a human

So says a human who believes in a Messenger of God.

 

[ppp]

So says a human who believes in a Messenger of God.

And to hearken back to your earlier statement, your belief does not dictate reality. There is no reason to believe that you know, or capable of knowing that messenger of God actually exist. Let alone that none, one or more gods exist

 

[Trailblazer]

And to hearken back to your earlier statement, your belief does not dictate reality. There is no reason to believe that you know, or capable of knowing that messenger of God actually exist. Let alone that any none, one or more gods exist

No, there is no reason for you or anyone else to believe that Messengers and God actually exist, but there is a reason for me to believe it.

 

[rational experiences]

Humans as humans about humans for humans want human life to exist as it was owned.

First a human equal a human mutual sharing loving giving to human family on earth as it is in heaven. Cooled and natural. The status holy.

Gods holy status.

O earth sealed not releasing radiation.
Earths owned god heavens owned by
The holy planet. Cold cooled sealed by cold water.

Was the known human living status cooled water for biology.

Men of science natural first theories various God products as chemicals and gases of the earth and it's heavens.

Men's thesis messages about gods bodies in form.

They were mind irradiated by heavenly gas fallout that had pressure cooled gas in space. Involving presence of huge amounts of water mass.

O earth one God sealed by cold water.
O earth gods heavens cooled water.

One God status only the only holy God

As said by human men in science.

Therefore as it was one God only they meant it was one God only.

The reminder if you don't honour one God you get life sacrificed bodily and consciously by tree of life's oxygenation losses of water the holy body. Kept cooled by ice saviour.

Waters baptism was humans holy body. The only holy body water.

The teaching holy body water.

All other gas spirits owned a hot history in space. As their first placement.

 

[lukethethird]

No, there is one true God and many misconceptions about that God that are false.

You said other religions are falsely representing God's nature., so in that case there are believers taken in by a false representation of God's nature, so in those cases that amounts to a false God. Of course you know the true nature of God, I mean, you wouldn't believe otherwise, would you.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Maybe that grade school analogy of the Baha'is fits. So, if the teachers are the manifestations. And as the students learn the lessons at one level and move on to the next grade their capacity has increased.

The problem is with the students that don't want to learn and keep flunking out. What does God do with them?

But another problem... Let's say Baha'u'llah is a college level course, but then what was the course just below this one? Like a prerequisite course? Islam? No, Baha'u'llah accepts anybody from any level into his course.

And another problem... Did Jesus or Muhammad or any of the other "Divine" teachers teach their courses? No, they had "student" teachers and the text books did give accurate information. So now a student who studied under Jesus looks at the curriculum of Muhammad, or Buddha or Baha'u'llah and the teachings don't line up. They contradict. So, to accept Baha'u'llah and take his course, a person has to unlearn some of the things they were taught.

But then there is another thing going on in each religion. They all have various levels of spirituality within them. They can "graduate" from one level to another within their own religion. A highly developed person, with a high degree of spirituality in one religion, didn't get by doing and believing in the same things that other people have done in the other religions. So, can these teachers and paths to higher levels be separate but equal? And a very spiritual Christian that believes Jesus is God, would they have to renounce that in order to get "right" with God? And accept what the Baha'i Faith teaches?

Hi CG. Hope you are staying safe. A couple of my friends have covid despite being double vaccinated and they are very ill. We had the booster shot last week, Pfizer, and I’ve got headaches and upset tummy but improving very slowly.

As to students and Teachers. I posted recently that each Manifestation brings teachings and laws according to the needs of the age He appears.

So just very concisely and briefly.

Christ = love thy neighbour

Muhammad = love your country

Baha’u’llah = love all humanity.

They all taught love but widened it’s embrace as humanity evolved, developed and progressed. And They all compliment one another. For example, to love all humanity includes and encompasses loving one’s country and the individual and loving one’s country includes loving the individual.

As humans have freedom of choice we are left alone to face the consequences of our choices. Baha’u’llah said that there was only one religion of God.

“ This is the changeless faith of God, eternal in the past eternal in the future”

So when, for whatever reason, people reject the next Teacher, they get left behind and do not acquire the new lessons being taught. As new Teachers appear, those who reject the new Teachers accumulate until instead of humanity having one evolving Faith we witness outwardly many Faiths which do not have the knowledge of how to get along (because they rejected the new Teachers so remained ignorant of new ways of being united) so humanity is plunged into wars and horrors which these people cannot extricate themselves from because they do not possess the knowledge because they rejected the new knowledge.

What should have happened. Jews should have accepted Christ. There would only have then been one religion. Christians should have all believed in Muhammad then still there would only have been one religion. And then we continue to the Bab and now Baha’u’llah and God’s religion is still one. Then Baha’is must accept the next Manifestation and it’s still one, undivided, united religion of God. Of course we have to historically apply the same to Hinduism, Buddhism and Zoroastrianism but this is just a brief example of what was supposed to happen. Humanity failed, so now we have hundreds of thousands of sects all conflicting with one another and turning people off religion which was supposed to unite people not divide them.

Another area religionists have sadly failed is in failing to follow only what their Founders taught not the priests. It is always the priests which have persecuted a new Teacher and turned their followers against Him. Listening to them has been amongst the greatest mistakes humanity has ever made, for God has given us all eyes to see with and minds to think for ourselves with, not to blindly follow others. Yet followers have placed the words and interpretations of their priests above that of the original Teachers so religion became divided because no two religious leaders could agree on the same thing.

By reading the Words of the Teachers for ourselves using our own eyes and minds, we had a far better chance of progressing to the next Teacher than we have by blindly putting our trust in religious leaders. This has been our lesson to learn.

If and when we begin to think with our own minds and see through our own eyes, then there is immense hope we can unlearn the harmful divisive things we were taught such as supremacy, and all be united as one family.

The truly very highly spiritual people of each religion are usually the ones who accept the new Teacher and move on to the new knowledge as they recognise the Source as all coming from the same God.

I tried to answer these questions as best I could out of respect. Also I came across a quote by a non Baha’i, Erich Fromm, which I found fascinating and post it here.


In fact, for those who see in the monotheistic religions only one of the stations in the evolution of the human race, it is not too far-fetched to believe that a new religion will develop within the next few hundred years, a religion which corresponds to the development of the human race; the most important feature of such a religion would be its universalistic character, corresponding to the unification of mankind which is taking place in this epoch; it would embrace the humanistic teachings common to all great religions of the East and of the West; its doctrines would not contradict the rational insight of mankind today, and its emphasis would be on the practice of life, rather than on doctrinal beliefs. Such a religion would create new rituals and artistic forms of expression, conducive to the spirit of reverence toward life and the solidarity of man. Religion can, of course, not be invented. It will come into existence with the appearance of a new great teacher, just as they have appeared in previous centuries when the time was ripe. In the meantime, those who believe in God should express their faith by living it; those who do not believe, by living the precepts of love and justice and—waiting.
(Erich Fromm - The Sane Society)

Erich Fromm - Wikipedia

 

[ppp]

No, there is no reason for you or anyone else to believe that Messengers and God actually exist, but there is a reason for me to believe it.

Your point being?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Okay, so now you have moved from discussing to just repeating tropes and sound bites. I could get a Bartlett's familiar quotations for that

Of course God can do all those things and whatever He wishes because He is God.

But He is also all wise and would of course use that power with wisdom.

My point is that God acts with wisdom.

 

[rational experiences]

You said other religions are falsely representing God's nature., so in that case there are believers taken in by a false representation of God's nature, so in those cases that amounts to a false God. Of course you know the true nature of God, I mean, you wouldn't believe otherwise, would you.

The Baha'i message was known not to be scientific. Is all that human memory tells itself.

All other pre taught data statements held science facts within.

One true God is natural.

The ideology has to be thought presented by a human doing a life on earth assessment. Why it was just a message and not a religion.

Why the thought upon ideals do not support science itself and infers maybe religious idealism not acceptable either.

However the gain of a beautiful mind was by spiritual medical practices. Which needed teaching to learn how to do it at home.

 

[rational experiences]

Of course God can do all those things and whatever He wishes because He is God.

But He is also all wise and would of course use that power with wisdom.

My point is that God acts with wisdom.

You cannot say the claim unless you live as just a human first about humans the topic as a Known human only status.

As the topic is all about yourself human first and why you need to teach humans.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You cannot say the claim unless you live as just a human first about humans the topic as a Known human only status.

As the topic is all about yourself human first and why you need to teach humans.

You mention you are a spiritualist. What is it you believe?

 

[ppp]

Of course God can do all those things and whatever He wishes because He is God.

But He is also all wise and would of course use that power with wisdom.

My point is that God acts with wisdom.

I get that you believe those things. I never denied that you believe what you say.