Sheldon
Veteran Member
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Baha'i and Messengers
- Thread starter ppp
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You're in a debate forum?
Sheldon
Veteran Member
Look atheism up in any dictionary, ask any atheist what their atheism means, and I defy you to find anything remotely comparable to what you are asking or implying about atheism there.
Atheism is the lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities, and nothing more. Though an atheist can of course believe or disbelieve anything they want beyond that single disbelief.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Nope, because Queen Marie of Romania was not an authority on the topic of religion.
You just grasp at straws and hope it will stick, but not on my watch because I know the fallacies.
An argument from authority (argumentum ab auctoritate), also called an appeal to authority, or argumentum ad verecundiam, is a form of argument in which the opinion of an authority on a topic is used as evidence to support an argument.[1] Some consider that it is used in a cogent form if all sides of a discussion agree on the reliability of the authority in the given context,[2][3] and others consider it to always be a fallacy to cite the views of an authority on the discussed topic as a means of supporting an argument.[4]
Argument from authority - Wikipedia
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
If that is the germ of eternal truth then tell me what is new in the Bahai message? It is just a repetition and plagiarism. Read Torah, Bible and Quran, and write a new book claiming originality!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What are the unique features of Baha'i Faith?
Bahá'í religion may be unique in the way that it accepts all other faiths as true and valid. Bahá'ís accept the divine nature of the missions of Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, the Buddha, Jesus and the Prophet Muhammad. They believe each one was a further stage in the revelation of God.Sep 22, 2009
Bahai: Introduction to Bahá'í beliefs and God - Religions - BBC
Well that is what Queen Marie of Romania wrote, so I guess we would have to ask what Queen Marie understood.
Most likely it was understood by the Queen to be the foundation that also enabled her to embrace the Baha'i Message, that is what the Queen offered, as I understand it.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I'm reading an article about the Baha'i "teaching" efforts in India...
One vehicle which provided a means whereby Baha'i teachings could be made more comprehensible within the Hindu tradition, and one which developed spontaneously during the mass teaching period, was the bhajan. A bhajan is a rhythmic devotional song that has long been popular among bhakti sects in India.
In the Baha'i bhajans the avatar concept/symbol becomes the Hindu equivalent of the Baha'i concept/symbol of prophet (or manifestation) and is used interchangeably with them despite the fact that in the Baha'i writings the idea of God's incarnation is rejected
Another Hindu avatar figure who made his way into the bhajans was Rama, and his use raises some interesting questions regarding the development of Baha'i mythology/theology not only in India but world wide. As with the Buddha and Krishna, the figure of Rama, so prevalent in the legends and lore of popular Hinduism, receives no mention in the writings of Baha'u'llah. Moreover, as far as this author is aware, he does not appear in the writings of Abdu'l-Baha, nor was he referred to as a Manifestation of God by Shoghi Effendi.
What is significant here is that Rama is placed besides other prophetic figures, all of whom are officially considered manifestations of God in the Baha'i Faith, and such a contextual reference would almost have certainly been understood by many in the audience as a legitimization.
As much of the initial missionary activity in Malwa took place among the lower tribes and castes, it would make sense that the message of eschatological hope associated with the kalkin avatar would be recognized by Baha'i teachers as a meaningful way to spread their message among this segment of the social hierarchy. Also, the eschatological universalism inherent in Baha'i prophetic claims allows for an easy symbolic association. Both of these themes can be found in the following verses of a popular Baha'i bhajan:
Arise O children of India, the kalkin avatar has come; Vishnu's avatar has come with the name Baha'u'llah Nowhere in the entire world can the influence of religion be seen. The wicked have obtained everything; the truthful have lost all. According to the Gita the time of Vishnu's avatar has come...Arise
In the Baha'i bhajans the avatar concept/symbol becomes the Hindu equivalent of the Baha'i concept/symbol of prophet (or manifestation) and is used interchangeably with them despite the fact that in the Baha'i writings the idea of God's incarnation is rejected
Another Hindu avatar figure who made his way into the bhajans was Rama, and his use raises some interesting questions regarding the development of Baha'i mythology/theology not only in India but world wide. As with the Buddha and Krishna, the figure of Rama, so prevalent in the legends and lore of popular Hinduism, receives no mention in the writings of Baha'u'llah. Moreover, as far as this author is aware, he does not appear in the writings of Abdu'l-Baha, nor was he referred to as a Manifestation of God by Shoghi Effendi.
What is significant here is that Rama is placed besides other prophetic figures, all of whom are officially considered manifestations of God in the Baha'i Faith, and such a contextual reference would almost have certainly been understood by many in the audience as a legitimization.
As much of the initial missionary activity in Malwa took place among the lower tribes and castes, it would make sense that the message of eschatological hope associated with the kalkin avatar would be recognized by Baha'i teachers as a meaningful way to spread their message among this segment of the social hierarchy. Also, the eschatological universalism inherent in Baha'i prophetic claims allows for an easy symbolic association. Both of these themes can be found in the following verses of a popular Baha'i bhajan:
Arise O children of India, the kalkin avatar has come; Vishnu's avatar has come with the name Baha'u'llah Nowhere in the entire world can the influence of religion be seen. The wicked have obtained everything; the truthful have lost all. According to the Gita the time of Vishnu's avatar has come...Arise
Interesting stuff. And I can see why Baha'i were successful in getting converts in rural villages.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
A back-stabbing acceptance. After you so-called acceptance, you say that they are out-dated and corrupt. Allah save us from this kind of 'munafiq' acceptance. That means you accept when it suits you an reject when it does not.
You give inconsistent answers about your religious truth. That illustrates the trap you create for yourself.
lukethethird
unknown member
I'm beginning to think some people are real comfortable with circular reasoning, it suits them just fine.
Yet this happens by people who aren't messengers of God, so this isn't a good test.
Now you can retort with "They are all Messengers of God" which means we can look at who fits your list of characteristics and it includes Hitler. It includes Napoleon. It includes many dictators, and even some good people. This doesn't mesh with your claim of God's goals of unity.
So perhaps being charismatic doesn't prove anything about a message of God.
This isn't a factual claim.
This sounds like some sort of prophesy, or at least insider info. Are you keeping secrets from us? Why tease us and not offer details? Is this a bluff?
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
What importance does this queen has today? Perhaps she asked her secretary to send a suitable reply to Bahaollah's letter. Kings and queens generally do that. It is not mentioned anywhere that she became a Bahai. Wikipedia mentions that she preferred to wear a Greek Cross. Read up, friend.
Tell me, which nation has changed its direction because of Bahai message? It is always funny to read your posts and that of other Bahais.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, we do not accept all of what men have done to corrupt those religions over time.
Why should we?
What Baha'i and its messengers don't do is offer a realistic plan for unity. God allowed humans to become diverse in religious belief, and has no plans to reverse this, right?
That is the trap. It is circular, there is no end, just a cycle, it feels safe and inescapable.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God does have a plan to reverse it, and eventually it will be achieved through the teachings of Baha'u'llah.
I do not know how or when it will be achieved, but that what God has ordained always comes to pass.
Obviously more people will have to embrace the Baha'i vision of unity before it can become a reality.
“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.”
The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Then you should not say that you accept other religions as they are all corrupted.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I say that I believe the other religions that were revealed by Messengers of God, but I do not accept how the leaders and followers of those religion misinterpreted scriptures and corrupted those religions after they were revealed.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
I was just ending the conversation. Goodbye.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
What makes you think I was guessing? There you are guessing again.